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Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 9:41 AM (#69637)
Subject: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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I would like to design a blouse in PMB5 like the one shown below. However, I cannot figure out how to get a yolked blouse with a princess seam going to the armsyce below the yolk seam. Any suggestions. I did get a patter made in PE with PMB4, but am not entirely happy with the outcome - on paper anyway.





(VogueBlouseLineDrawing.JPG)



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Attachments VogueBlouseLineDrawing.JPG (35KB - 9 downloads)
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dotmoll
Posted 2010-11-01 9:52 AM (#69641 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern


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Is your problem that you want the applied yoke at the armscye breakpoint, but PMB puts the armscye princess seam there instead??

I'm guessing you don't intend to put any shaping in the yoke/bodice seams, so an applied yoke should give you the pattern piece you want?

And are you using PMB5 for menswear, as I admit I sometimes do too?
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 10:05 AM (#69642 - in reply to #69641)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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dotmoll - 2010-11-01 8:52 AM

Is your problem that you want the applied yoke at the armscye breakpoint, but PMB puts the armscye princess seam there instead??

I'm guessing you don't intend to put any shaping in the yoke/bodice seams, so an applied yoke should give you the pattern piece you want?

And are you using PMB5 for menswear, as I admit I sometimes do too?


Thanks for the response. Yes, the design challenge seems to be that PMB places the princess seam too high up the armscye to accommodate placement of an applied yolk of about 3" depth or so. I want the princess seam to hit the armscye lower. See the patter line drawing. I have tried dart override and that does lower the princess seam placement but then the sleeve cap gets a strange shape in the front, and the yolk still does not fit well. This is a blouse for a female friend of mine, so I will be shaping the front of the bodice. I have not used PMB for men's wear although I noticed that the classic and dress shirt patterns are very similar. I suppose pants are, too. But I have not tried to put male measurements into the PMB chart to see what I get. I do use Tailor Made for men's wear.
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dotmoll
Posted 2010-11-01 10:23 AM (#69644 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern


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I can't help you on how to pull the armscye shaping down lower, though I don't see why you shouldn't take it into PE and redraw the curve from somewhere west of bustpoint out to just a little bit (half inch or so) lower down the armscye (wouldn't take it too far down).

PMB for guys...I use TailorMade quite a lot and consider it is great value for money, but there are two shirt features it doesn't offer...waist and hip shaping for slimfit shirts, and inset yoke styles for peasant-style shirts (found under sheaths in PMB). I use an A cup for guys, because I find an AA drafts weirdly...sometimes the PMB armscye drafts weirdly anyway with a man's measurements, and I have not yet thought hard about why that is.
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 11:29 AM (#69646 - in reply to #69644)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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dotmoll - 2010-11-01 9:23 AM

I can't help you on how to pull the armscye shaping down lower, though I don't see why you shouldn't take it into PE and redraw the curve from somewhere west of bustpoint out to just a little bit (half inch or so) lower down the armscye (wouldn't take it too far down).

PMB for guys...I use TailorMade quite a lot and consider it is great value for money, but there are two shirt features it doesn't offer...waist and hip shaping for slimfit shirts, and inset yoke styles for peasant-style shirts (found under sheaths in PMB). I use an A cup for guys, because I find an AA drafts weirdly...sometimes the PMB armscye drafts weirdly anyway with a man's measurements, and I have not yet thought hard about why that is.


I did use PE to drop that Princess seam as you mentioned. It is not hard to do that, but I look at the pattern and wonder how it will fit. The yolk still has to be a little more narrow than I want, but maybe that will be the compromise needed to get the blouse made. Thanks again.

I have handled that shaping in a man's shirt in TM by moving the darts that get printed to the side seam. That works pretty well and you can control the amount of shaping by changing the size of the darts that you move. I never sewed the darts in the middle front anyway, but I did sew them in the back when I make a fleece jacket from the shirt pattern.
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-11-01 11:55 AM (#69648 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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the dart uptake is in the yoke seamline.  the princess seam is decorative, not functional.


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Belinda
Posted 2010-11-01 5:20 PM (#69659 - in reply to #69642)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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the design challenge seems to be that PMB places the princess seam too high up the armscye to accommodate placement of an applied yolk of about 3" depth or so. I want the princess seam to hit the armscye lower. See the patter line drawing.

Use the Armhole Shape buttons. The Armscye Princess seam intersects the armhole where the mark is, so use the Armhole Shape button to lower the mark. Each click is 1/10". Be sure you set the Armhole Depth and Bust Depth first though. HTH

Edited by Belinda 2010-11-01 5:21 PM
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 8:03 PM (#69668 - in reply to #69648)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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rowena___. - 2010-11-01 10:55 AM

the dart uptake is in the yoke seamline.  the princess seam is decorative, not functional.




Thanks for the response.

If I understand the implications of what you say, then I can simply cut the front piece to obtain the design line of a princess seam which is not really a princess seam? Is that correct? So I could make a classic shirt, add the applied yolk the size I want, and then just cut the front with the fake princecess seam. That would be cool and pretty easy I think?

Edited by StMike 2010-11-01 8:05 PM
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 8:04 PM (#69669 - in reply to #69659)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Belinda - 2010-11-01 4:20 PM

the design challenge seems to be that PMB places the princess seam too high up the armscye to accommodate placement of an applied yolk of about 3" depth or so. I want the princess seam to hit the armscye lower. See the patter line drawing.

Use the Armhole Shape buttons. The Armscye Princess seam intersects the armhole where the mark is, so use the Armhole Shape button to lower the mark. Each click is 1/10". Be sure you set the Armhole Depth and Bust Depth first though. HTH


I like that idea very much. I will try it and see what I get! Thanks.
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-11-01 9:26 PM (#69677 - in reply to #69668)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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StMike - 2010-11-01 6:03 PM
rowena___. - 2010-11-01 10:55 AMthe dart uptake is in the yoke seamline.  the princess seam is decorative, not functional.


Thanks for the response.If I understand the implications of what you say, then I can simply cut the front piece to obtain the design line of a princess seam which is not really a princess seam? Is that correct? So I could make a classic shirt, add the applied yolk the size I want, and then just cut the front with the fake princecess seam. That would be cool and pretty easy I think?

no, the applied yoke is nothing but an applique, it is not functional.  what i'm saying is this looks to me like a true yoke, and that the princess seams are decorative.  i base this on the fact that the princess seam doesn't come anywhere near the bust point.

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cfonfold
Posted 2010-11-01 10:20 PM (#69683 - in reply to #69668)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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I don't think that the software will give you the combination that you are looking for. The yoked blouse is as Rowena says-- a true yoke. And it provides gathers at the upper bust. And you don't get a princess choice.

THe classic blouse with an armscye princess seam doesn't give you either yoke choice. So it would seem that you will need to use PE to obtain what you want!

I really think that there is very little shaping anywhere in the sample you've shown except perhaps the side seam. But you can certainly provide shaping yourself by manipulating both the princess seam and the yoke.

 And--- (whisper)-- the technical drawing could lie!

Coopie

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StMike
Posted 2010-11-01 10:38 PM (#69684 - in reply to #69683)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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cfonfold - 2010-11-01 9:20 PM

I don't think that the software will give you the combination that you are looking for. The yoked blouse is as Rowena says-- a true yoke. And it provides gathers at the upper bust. And you don't get a princess choice.

THe classic blouse with an armscye princess seam doesn't give you either yoke choice. So it would seem that you will need to use PE to obtain what you want!

I really think that there is very little shaping anywhere in the sample you've shown except perhaps the side seam. But you can certainly provide shaping yourself by manipulating both the princess seam and the yoke.

 And--- (whisper)-- the technical drawing could lie!

Coopie

[/QUz


Thanks, Coopie. Here is photo. You may be right, there is very little shaping in the blouse. That model s very thin and flat. And yes, the software may not give me the design I want. I think I can make a classic blouse, redraw the princess seam to make it lower on the armscye, and use the applied yolk modified to shorten it to fit the space available above the princess seam. It will be pretty short at CF. A lot of work for a simple design. I may just give up and buy the commercial pattern and modify that to fit.



(VogueBlousePhoto.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments VogueBlousePhoto.JPG (35KB - 8 downloads)
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-11-02 7:18 AM (#69695 - in reply to #69684)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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i think you're making it way too complicated.

start with an ordinary bust/waist dart blouse, cut the yoke where you want it, then make the princess seam.  if you do it my way, you'll only have to rotate the bust dart where you want it on the armscye then cut the pattern apart.

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Susan in Miami
Posted 2010-11-02 8:47 AM (#69699 - in reply to #69695)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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I am going to make this blouse and I am going to make it exactly the Rowena outlined. It is a beautiful style.

Susan

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cfonfold
Posted 2010-11-02 9:23 AM (#69701 - in reply to #69695)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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It's certainly the way I would do it.

 I was thinking last night as I flipped through the choices, that the software simply can't be, and wasn't designed to accomodate all the permutations of which the human mind is capable. I still use the old methods of drawing on a fitting garment to design. Puts the seams exactly where I want and adjusts the fit as well.

Coopie

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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2010-11-02 9:28 AM (#69702 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Here is a handout I did on a blouse like this.  The example is shoulder princess.  It would be easier to do as an armscye princess.



Attachments
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Attachments Yoked Princess Blouse.pdf (117KB - 330 downloads)
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-02 10:02 AM (#69706 - in reply to #69695)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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rowena___. - 2010-11-02 6:18 AM

i think you're making it way too complicated.

start with an ordinary bust/waist dart blouse, cut the yoke where you want it, then make the princess seam.  if you do it my way, you'll only have to rotate the bust dart where you want it on the armscye then cut the pattern apart.



Thank you Rowena. Simple, to the point and I think it will work like a charm!
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StMike
Posted 2010-11-02 10:04 AM (#69707 - in reply to #69702)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Karen - Tech Support - 2010-11-02 8:28 AM

Here is a handout I did on a blouse like this.  The example is shoulder princess.  It would be easier to do as an armscye princess.



Thank you, Karen. Along with Rowena's suggestions, your instructions will give me the design I want. I plan to make that blouse after I finish the pants I am making for the same woman, probably in early December. I will post some pictures.
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Helen S
Posted 2010-11-06 8:17 AM (#69928 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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I did a somewhat similar blouse in 2006. Look in my album http://www.wildginger.com/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumi... - I did a yoked blouse with extensive alteration in PE. Also this message http://www.wildginger.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2550&po...

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StMike
Posted 2011-04-22 7:39 AM (#74840 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Here is one photo of what I got with my trial and error approach using the Classic Blouse PMB5 and some slashing in PE.  I had some trouble sewing this together.  Poly shantung from JoAnn is hard to work with and I did not have a straight stitch needle plate for my machine (I do now).  I am going to try again with a natural fiber.  The blouse fits well, and looks a lot better on the wearer.  I will post more pictures in my album later today.

Edited by StMike 2011-04-22 7:41 AM




(Akpyblouse.jpg)



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Attachments Akpyblouse.jpg (83KB - 9 downloads)
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Sewhappy
Posted 2011-04-22 10:22 AM (#74842 - in reply to #74840)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern


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Beautiful result,
Looks very polished.
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Grandma C
Posted 2011-04-22 12:44 PM (#74845 - in reply to #69637)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern


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I really like that!!! Good work. Your collar points look perfect.
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StMike
Posted 2011-04-22 1:10 PM (#74847 - in reply to #74845)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Thank you for the comments.  I used a single collar piece made by cutting the under collar pattern at CB and attaching the pattern pieces to each end of the upper collar pattern piece.  That results in a long, curved single piece with the under collar on the bias and no seams at the ends of the finished collar.  The points come out very sharp and clean.  You can do the same with cuffs but I did not do that here.  I did use the cuff technique described by Kathleen Fansenella at http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/reverse_engineering_standa... It is much easier and faster than other cuff methods I know of.  I will be posting more pictures of the blouse on the wearer after the weekend.  Thanks again.
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Sewhappy
Posted 2011-04-22 5:24 PM (#74848 - in reply to #74847)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern


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Thanks for sharing your methods and tutorial link St. Mike
Very helpful info. on that fashion incubator site.

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StMike
Posted 2011-04-22 8:06 PM (#74852 - in reply to #74848)
Subject: RE: Copy Commercial Blouse Pattern



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Sewhappy - 2011-04-22 4:24 PMThanks for sharing your methods and tutorial link St. Mike
Very helpful info. on that fashion incubator site.



I have got a lot of good information from that site.  The deconstruction tutorials are especially helpful, although they are not titled so you just have to plow through all of them.  Alsol, they have some great design challenges - way beyond my level but I do learn something from them anyway.
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