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How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?
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rebells
Posted 2010-05-25 11:11 AM (#62667)
Subject: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Right now I feel like melting would be a relief.  I do not have air conditioning, ( small window unit not installed yet) and yesterday I suffered through a heat advisory.  As a consequence, I am looking for something cool to wear.  I have made the long sleeve version of this dress a couple of times but not since 2005 and I no longer fit the size range.  So how do I make the short sleeve version in PMB?



(Barcelons-by-TextileStudios.jpg)



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rebells
Posted 2010-05-28 9:05 PM (#62688 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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I really hope someone chimes in here.  I wanted to have this ready to wear on Sunday but at this rate I'll be lucky if I get it done by next year.

At first I couldn't find the original pattern.  What was lost is now found.  I tried to enlarge the pattern but I am two and a half sizes larger and I hate it when I can't figure out how to do something.

This is a very simple pattern and I find it frustrating that I can't just whip it up with PMB.  It looks like the bodice could be drafted from the kimono style.  In PMB the kimono style is very measurement driven and it won't draft short sleeves at all.  In other words, it doesn't work, at least not for me.  The skirt is pretty straight forward except for the dip in the front at the waist and at the hem.

The illustration makes it look like the bodice for the long and short sleeve versions are the same.  They are not.  The long sleeve bodice has a drop shoulder and normal armscye.  The short sleeve version has the sleeve and bodice cut as one piece.

I've spent way too much time on this.  I tried using the dress, with a waist seam, but the maximum waist ease will not allow it to pass easily over my head.  A side zipper might be an answer but the skirt does not have a side seam.  Or I could add a back seam to the top and use a zipper.  The skirt seam is on the center front and back and is cut on the bias.  This is supposed to be a quick and easy project.

After measuring the commercial pattern and transfering those measurements to PMB dress with a waist seam, this is what I have come up with:



Edited by rebells 2010-05-28 9:29 PM




(20100528Barcelona.jpg)



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Attachments 20100528Barcelona.jpg (32KB - 2 downloads)
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rebells
Posted 2010-05-28 9:35 PM (#62689 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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I chose the casual bodice with a dropped waist.  The advantage of the dropped waist is that I can make the waist large enough to slip over my head by increasing the hip ease.  I will slice off  a wedge at the side towards the front to make the pointed dip.

I couldn't get the settings for the skirt right in the Style Editor.  The circle skirt is too full and the flared skirt won't flare enough.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Marilyn R in IL
Posted 2010-05-29 9:22 AM (#62690 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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OK, I'll take a stab at this... But, please realize that the computer w/PMB on it is on the 3rd flr., and I am on the 1st flr.--so I'm not looking at all possible settings.

I would start with the empire draft and in the setting for raise or lower waist, set it at the smallest # you can--making it closer to your waist, but still slightly raised--waistline darts only.

I would draft an A-line or straight skirt w/flare, something that follows the waist line for the bodice. You are going to modify in PE. by modifying and 'marrying' the front and back pieces leaving only the CF and CB seams. In PE, you can add more flare before you have the marriage ceremony by slashing and spreading at the hemline while pivoting at the waist. A bias skirt will naturally have more flare at the hem as that is the nature of a bias cut.

I agree with you about creating the V CF. Just measure down on the CF of the skirt and add that same amount to the CF of the bodice.

Now, for the sleeves....if you can draft a kimono or dolman w/the empire settings, do that--for long sleeves, since the short sleeves get wonky w/your measurements. Now, in PE again cut off the sleeves where you want them. Measure on your body from where the neckine will be over your shoulder and then down the top of your arm. You may want to slice the pattern at an angle here because you want the top of the sleeve to come down farther than the underarm seam. You'll probably having to so some fiddling here, because the underarm/sideseam may not match for F and B. The sideseams/underarm seams really need to match. The other thing you will want to compare to the commercial pattern is the length of the sleeve hem w/ your PMB pattern. Take a tape measure and hold it around your arm to see how much length you want there for comfort.

For all of this, don't forget to draft the original starting pattern with enough ease. This is a drapey design, which I assume you will be making in a drapey fabric. The thinner and drapier the fabric, the more ease you need for the design. Stiffer fabric=less ease.

I agree with you that this looks like a nice cool dress for summer. I just might have to get up to my 3rd floor and try drafting one for myself...

Good luck with this project and please post your progress and some finished pictures!

HTH, Marilyn
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Here_Fishey
Posted 2010-05-29 1:28 PM (#62691 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Here's my attempt at this.

Under Dresses

Style: Bodice

Bodice Length: Straight

No Closure

Scoop Neckline - front 4 back 1.5

Cut-on Cap Sleeve

Handkerchief Skirt

5" ease all around. (5 is the max that I can get on the waistline)

I lowered the "raise waist" setting to 1

The advantage of the Straight Bodice Length is that with the ease setting It can be made large enough that I think I could still get it on and off with the no-closure setting.  The cut on cap sleeve kinda looks like the sleeve in the line drawing.  The Handkerchief Hem may give you more flare than you want, but as it is bias cut by design, and is square on the bottom, it also seemed to fit the picture.

I am now trying to wrap my brain around how to make the waist-line into the v-shape in PE.  I'll have to pull out my DFP book and see if I can figure it out.

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Here_Fishey
Posted 2010-05-29 2:44 PM (#62692 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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I attempted to draft this, and I changed my mind on the skirt and I switched to the flared skirt because it was easier to change the waistline.  I just used the default flare, it would be easy to add more flare to this skirt if you wanted it by rotating the side seams out farther. 





(TS_Barcelona_Dress.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments TS_Barcelona_Dress.jpg (31KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments TS_Barcelona_Dress.las (16KB - 2 downloads)
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rebells
Posted 2010-05-31 11:34 AM (#62731 - in reply to #62690)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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"I would start with the empire draft and in the setting for raise orlower waist, set it at the smallest # you can--making it closer to yourwaist, but still slightly raised--waistline darts only. "


Marilyn, Why would you start with the empire?  Does the waist side seam appear higher than the natural waistline?  I can't tell from the picture.  When I made it up it fell at my natural waist but I could be shorter than what the pattern was made for.


As tedious as it is to enlarge a pattern it is definitely waaay less time consuming than trying to copy it in PMB.  I hate admitting defeat so I will continue working on this.  (Which is why I'm not getting much actual sewing done.)


Edited by rebells 2010-05-31 11:35 AM
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rebells
Posted 2010-05-31 11:45 AM (#62732 - in reply to #62691)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Posts: 573
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
"The cut on cap sleeve kinda looks like the sleeve in the line drawing."

Here Fishy - At first I couldn't see this but perhaps if I extended the sleeve edge out to the correct length and made an under sleeve?

"The Handkerchief Hem may give you more flare than you want, but as itis bias cut by design, and is square on the bottom, it also seemed tofit the picture."

I hadn't even thought of the handkerchief hem.  It was fun playing with it.  Even though it would be too full I would use it if it had two corners and two curves instead of four corners.


Edited by rebells 2010-05-31 11:46 AM
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Olwynmary
Posted 2010-05-31 2:37 PM (#62734 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


Frankly, I wouldn't do all that work on the sleeve, I would simply do it on the cutting table. Either (a) eyeball the sleeve in the original pattern - it looks to me as though instead of cutting inwards for an armsceye, you simply cut outwards to make a cap sleeve - or (b) lay the original pattern over the bodice which fits you, enlarge it if your biceps have grown, and cut. If you insist on being more pure, you could refrain from cutting out the paper pattern until you have overlaid the original and drawn around it with your trusty #2 pencil.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans
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cfonfold
Posted 2010-05-31 11:19 PM (#62740 - in reply to #62731)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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As tedious as it is to enlarge a pattern it is definitely waaay less time consuming than trying to copy it in PMB.  I hate admitting defeat so I will continue working on this.  (Which is why I'm not getting much actual sewing done.)

I hate to see someone become frustrated over a project like this.You may be making this waaay too hard! Take a look at your line drawing. While it probably is not totally accurate, the indication given is pretty clear. Ignore the interior style lines and check the outside lines only. I think it  really is just a short-sleeved kimono sheath. (In it's basic form )


Take a look at this style over your red fitting garment, to judge the ease level. In the style editor you should be able to get the sleeve, neckline, ease level and single dart. Everything but flare to the skirt and a waistline seam.
So in PE draw in the seam line at the waist and then add flare to the skirt by rotating the dart to the hem and then adding more flare to suit.  

I know there is supposed to be some kind of weirdness with the short sleeved kimono but at least with my chart it is really too small to worry about. I have not muslined this design and so can not vouch for it 100%, but I think that this would do it. The biggest decision I think would be the ease level. I would use the largest possible ease level  at the waist to make the waist dart as small as possible.

And you have the advantage of having the old pattern to check along the way.And remember that it may not be line and angle the same as the other, but it will be custom and suited to your body!

Let me know if I can help at all.  Good luck

Coopie



Edited by cfonfold 2010-05-31 11:21 PM
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rebells
Posted 2010-06-01 8:13 AM (#62741 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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There is more than just a little weirdness in the kimono draft for my measurements but I can copy over it using the original pattern.  I had a few minutes this morning so I started work on the skirt.  The pattern envelope said it was a 3/4 circle.  I am listing each step for those interested.

3/4 Circle Skirt

Using calculator
type 55, select 3/4 circle, click Circ->Rad

Using PE
select circle, start circle and type 11.67 then enter
3 quarters = dress waist measurement

Using calc
11.67 + length of skirt 33.5 = 45.17

Using PE
select circle, start circle at center point of previous circle and type 45.17 then enter

Starting at the center point, quarter the circles
Using the intercept tool, end quarter lines  on circles

Draw arc starting at the 1st quarter mark and ending at the 3rd quarter mark, for both circles

Delete full circles
Delete quarter lines

Using Segment tool divide skirt into 4 sections







(20100601Barcelonasofar.jpg)



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Attachments 20100601Barcelonasofar.jpg (18KB - 3 downloads)
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rebells
Posted 2010-06-01 10:17 AM (#62743 - in reply to #62740)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Coopie - Is it possible to get the same drape in the front of the skirt without making it a 3/4 circle? 
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cfonfold
Posted 2010-06-01 10:18 AM (#62744 - in reply to #62741)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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A simpler approach might to start with the hem measure. And then slash and pivot each gore to the demension.

There are so many ways to come at a design like this! One of my greatest enjoyments is reading the indivedual methods. They all work to a greater or lesser degree. That's what the forum is for and all about! And it keeps me on my toes as well.

Take a look at the las. files that I attach. As I said before--I have not muslined this ---and I tend to take a very simple approach. Perhaps however it might give you some ideas?

Coopie

P.S.  And I was wrong about the flare! I found it this a.m.



Edited by cfonfold 2010-06-01 10:21 AM




Attachments
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Attachments forum_barcelona_2.las (16KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments forum_barcelona_2._a.las (8KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments arcelona_2._b.las (4KB - 9 downloads)
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cfonfold
Posted 2010-06-01 10:24 AM (#62745 - in reply to #62743)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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I actually think it might. As I said --muslin--. See my last post--- that might help. I also think the hem is a straight line rather then a curve. It could be viewed as a handkerchef front split in the middle. Thanks to who ever suggested that!

Coopie

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mastdenman
Posted 2010-06-01 7:04 PM (#62760 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Try using a dress with dolman sleeves, scoop neck and a-line midi length skirt. You may have to use lots of ease and made the waistline shaping a PE project.
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rebells
Posted 2010-06-02 1:37 PM (#62767 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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It is much cooler today so I can think better.  This is not as hard as it seemed.  For me, the settings to get a 3/4 circle skirt require a 9 for hip ease, (I set my hip measurement in the chart 4 inches smaller than it actually is to give me more control over the waist and abdomine), 4 for waist ease, and a flare of 8.  I will copy the waist curve and dip from the original pattern.  Maybe I will figure out how to do this in PE later.



(barcelons_skirt_work.jpg)



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Attachments barcelons_skirt_work.jpg (56KB - 3 downloads)
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rebells
Posted 2010-06-02 1:43 PM (#62768 - in reply to #62744)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Location: Minneapolis, MN
cfonfold - 2010-06-01 8:18 AM

A simpler approach might to start with the hem measure. And then slash and pivot each gore to the demension.

There are so many ways to come at a design like this! One of my greatest enjoyments is reading the indivedual methods. They all work to a greater or lesser degree. That's what the forum is for and all about! And it keeps me on my toes as well.

Take a look at the las. files that I attach. As I said before--I have not muslined this ---and I tend to take a very simple approach. Perhaps however it might give you some ideas?

Coopie

P.S.  And I was wrong about the flare! I found it this a.m.



I still use version 3 and so cannot open .las files.  Would you mind reposting these in .jpeg?
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rebells
Posted 2010-06-02 1:45 PM (#62769 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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This is what I have gotten done on the torso.  I will copy the side/underarm seam from the original pattern.


Edited by rebells 2010-06-02 1:50 PM




(20100602BarcelonaviewA_Torsowork.dxf.jpg)



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cfonfold
Posted 2010-06-02 2:15 PM (#62770 - in reply to #62769)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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This looks quite good Rebecca! Take a flyer and do it in PE--you're very close I think.

Coopie

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Marilyn R in IL
Posted 2010-06-02 6:22 PM (#62771 - in reply to #62769)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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Did you end up trying the empire, or is this a dress bodice? The picture of the dress just looks like the waist is slightly raised, and then the V at CF comes just a little below the waist. I don't have the pattern though, so you probably know better than me.

I think you could just draw a curve for the underarm, say from the bottom of the cap sleeve, where the jink is, to the sideseam. Again, just make sure that your sideseams are pretty close to the same length. You can fudge a little because of the curve which is sort of 'stretchable'. Also, the line drawing makes it look like the darts are shorter than they look on you PMB pattern--especially the back darts should be shorter, I think.

Why did you decide to go with the circle, or rather 3/4 circle? It looks like it will be so full and I thought the original was a bias skirt.

Been fun to watch your progress...

Marilyn
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Patti
Posted 2010-06-02 8:24 PM (#62772 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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I came across this Simplicity pattern #3759 on Rusty Bobbins blog and it looks like it's close. Others have said how to accomplish in PMB, but in case you want something more Joann's is having Simplicity at $1/each in the near future. I hope the jpeg image comes through.





Edited by Patti 2010-06-02 8:34 PM




(4663412146_55a4b4d444.jpg)



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cfonfold
Posted 2010-06-02 11:04 PM (#62776 - in reply to #62768)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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I'm not sure that I have reduced these enough to look at comfortably.

Coopie

Well it was a good try at least. The first is the kimono straight from the style editor. The second is the seperation of the bodice from the skirt. The third is the slashed and rotated skirt. I

I'm sorry it is so clumsy! Placing the straight of grain at the side should force the fullness to the centers as the photo shows.



Edited by cfonfold 2010-06-02 11:11 PM




(forum_barcelona_2.jpg)



(forum_barcelona_3.JPG)



(forum barcelona_4.JPG)



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Attachments forum_barcelona_2.jpg (26KB - 5 downloads)
Attachments forum_barcelona_3.JPG (19KB - 4 downloads)
Attachments forum barcelona_4.JPG (20KB - 4 downloads)
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Marilyn R in IL
Posted 2010-06-03 7:57 AM (#62778 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



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Nice work, Coopie! Starting with the sheath looks like a much better idea than messing with a waist seam--and you can then cut the waist off where you want it. I also like the way you've manipulated the skirt. It will be bias at the sides and should create a very nice drape. However, after looking at the original pictures again...is the bias in the front?

Marilyn
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cfonfold
Posted 2010-06-03 9:31 AM (#62780 - in reply to #62778)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?



Expert

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Location: Norman,OK

I believe that if you look closely --it may be hard to see--you will find that the straight of grain is at the side. That should force the drape at the center front and back. Choice of fabric will affect it as well of course.

Coopie

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rebells
Posted 2010-06-03 9:33 AM (#62781 - in reply to #62667)
Subject: RE: How do I copy the TS Barcelona dress?


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Location: Minneapolis, MN
Last night I felt like screaming.  It was going to be the muslin night but...  The bodice pattern pieces went together without a hitch.  I cut it out leaving extra room where there was weirdness then taped it to the cutting board.  Then I positioned the original pattern over the PMB one to check general dimensions.  Everything was fine except the dip needed to be 3/8 shorter, I forgot to subtract the seam allowance when drafting it.  Then I moved the pattern over 1 1/2 inches, three sizes bigger.  I copied the side and underarm seams from the pattern using a sharpie.  This was when I discovered that the side seams were different lengths.  Checked the computer and it was drafted that way.  Then I folded out the excess on the side and transfered it to the waist dart.  At that point I gave up in disgust.


Edited by rebells 2010-06-03 9:40 AM
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