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Tony's projects
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antony
Posted 2009-05-25 12:06 PM (#55465)
Subject: Tony's projects


Member

Posts: 21

Hey everyone, at last I have posted 2 short sleeved shirts made with version 4 of TM. Both have the concealed front opening, gore neckline and semi fitted . I think the nect is too wide but after so many attempts of tweaking the shoulder slope this is the best I came up with. Any suggestions will be helpful . not sure if I need to increase the shoulder lenght or indeed the shoulder to shoulder in the back and fronts.

Look forward to your comments.

Tony
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-Max-
Posted 2009-05-25 12:38 PM (#55469 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Regular

Posts: 79
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Location: Fort Collins, CO
The shirts look great. I really like the style. I see the blue one really good the other is a little fuzzy.

I'm not an expert so don't take this too far. I'm just thinking out loud here and without seeing the back...

Your left shoulder slope looks like it's pulling a little, but may be the way your standing. It's raising the neck a little? Maybe a little more slope length would make the neck fit better and shoulder not look too wide? Maybe the Back Shoulder Slope longer without seeing the back.

How does the neck fit when closed? Does it fit ok, even though you don't wear it that way.

Please someone else maybe clearer.

Nice job. Inspiring.
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cfonfold
Posted 2009-05-25 1:31 PM (#55471 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Expert

Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK

Tell ya' what Tony---My husband would wear it them any day! If the neck seem too large try adding to the shoulder measure. That should close off the neck a bit. The across shoulder looks pretty good to me. Now I hope I've gotten that right!

Coopie

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cfonfold
Posted 2009-05-25 5:48 PM (#55476 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Expert

Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK

CHeck the Wiki. Shoulder and neck pattern balance.

Coopie

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Fashions by Joellyn
Posted 2009-05-26 11:40 AM (#55496 - in reply to #55476)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


I think that your shirts look just great! I like the details--well done!
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Karen Maslowski
Posted 2009-05-26 1:12 PM (#55497 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


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Location: Cincinnati, OH
You did a super job, Tony! I especially like how your concealed plackets turned out, very professional job.
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purplebouquet
Posted 2009-05-26 2:06 PM (#55503 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 561
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Location: Little Rock, AR
I am very impressed, Tony. Well done. My DH would be so pleased if I were this far with the sewing projects I promised him.

I don't see a too-wide neck. Which neck settings are you using? With a style like that, I think you'd want .25 inches all around, not more.

Claudia
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antony
Posted 2009-05-26 4:15 PM (#55507 - in reply to #55476)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


Member

Posts: 21

Patricia,
many thanks for your comments. I've printed the article and will read this later. Am feeling a lot confident about using TM now with all the compliments I've received. Now am going to tackle a the dress shirt. Will let you know how I get on.


Many thanks
Tony
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antony
Posted 2009-05-26 4:17 PM (#55508 - in reply to #55503)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


Member

Posts: 21

Claudia,

Many thanks. The neck width is less obvious as I havent bottoned the shirts all the way on. I agree not a lot but I figure the shoulder slope needs to be at least 3/4 inch longer.
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antony
Posted 2009-05-26 4:17 PM (#55509 - in reply to #55503)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


Member

Posts: 21

Claudia,

Many thanks. The neck width is less obvious as I havent bottoned the shirts all the way on. I agree not a lot but I figure the shoulder slope needs to be at least 3/4 inch longer.
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cfonfold
Posted 2009-05-26 4:58 PM (#55510 - in reply to #55509)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Expert

Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK

You might ask Karen to take a look before you change your Shoulder slopes.

 I'm not as good with TM as I should be. I correct in the muslin not the program. I do this because the muslin always gets me close enough to fit out the rough spots.

That "art" that is trying to form at the front of the armscye (blue shirt) might indicate that lengthening the slopes is not necessary. You seem to have a good fit at the neck and shoulder-- ask the experts. This could be case of simply lowering the armscye. Or somthing else that I can't call.

Coopie

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Marilyn R in IL
Posted 2009-05-27 9:39 AM (#55536 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 509
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First off, the shirts look great! If you're striving for perfection, lengthen the 'shoulder length' (I think that's what it's called). I wouldn't fool around with your slopes if all you want is a closer neck opening. First thing is button your shirt all the way up and then pinch out how much smaller you would like it so that it hugs your neck more. Then, add 1/2 that pinched amount to the shoulder length in your chart. After you change the measurement in your chart, or better yet a test chart, go ahead and draft a new shirt using the same settings. Measure the neck front and back. Now go into PE and measure the pattern that you used to create these 2 shirts--again, neck opening front and back. Your draft in Style Editor should be smaller now. If not, go back to your chart and make the shoulder a little longer still.

The shoulder length keeps the shoulder point--where it meets the top of the arm-- in the same place and adds the length to the neck edge. I think this is what you are trying to do. If on your sloper, the shoulder seam is about under your ear and straight across, then don't fool with the slopes.

HTH, Marilyn
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tsimkins
Posted 2009-05-31 12:50 AM (#55601 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



2525
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Very nice shirts Tony! You did a beautiful job sewing them as well. Love the concealed plackets. Check with Karen on the measurements for the shoulders, but I think you're pretty close.

Edited by tsimkins 2009-05-31 12:50 AM
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Trish
Posted 2009-05-31 3:18 PM (#55608 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Expert

Posts: 2309
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Location: Germantown, Tennessee

Nice shirts! 

Funny how we can all see something different when it comes to fixing stuff!  I wondered if maybe the back neck was too low...too far from your neck (?)...and thought perhaps a longer CBL and BSS might be in order!

You've done a great job on the sewing!  Please let us know if you make any measurement changes...help us learn what fixes do the trick!

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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2009-06-01 8:15 AM (#55633 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Tech Support

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If the back of the neck is too low do not change the CB and BSS.  This adds more between the bone in the back of the neck and the waist and does not make the neck higher.

Use the back neck depth settings to raise the back of the neck.

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TessainGabriola
Posted 2009-06-08 11:55 PM (#55897 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
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Location: Gabriola Island, BC, Canada

Nice! Go Tony!

Tessa

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TessainGabriola
Posted 2009-06-09 12:23 AM (#55899 - in reply to #55633)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
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Location: Gabriola Island, BC, Canada

Wow - I have never paid attention to the back neck depth setting.  <img align='middle' src='http://www.wildginger.com/forums/images/emoticons/idea.gif'>  

Tony, you are totally built like my son, and I really haven't been able to fit him properly. Michael was one of my reasons for getting Tailor Made. My shirts for him are always, even with an improper back neck depth setting,  <img align='middle' src='http://www.wildginger.com/forums/images/emoticons/wizard.gif'>   ,  are better than store bought! Yours look like they are good, too.   

Tessa 



Edited by TessainGabriola 2009-06-09 12:25 AM
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StMike
Posted 2010-02-15 8:59 PM (#61249 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 537
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
Hello Everyone. Great job, Tony! Your shirts are looking really fine. I am having the same neck problems you are with TM and have about reached the end of my rope with the program. Whoever designed the collar stand and collar did not do us sewers any favors. That collar stand is too narrow and the collar has too much curvature in the front. There is no way to fix that with settings as far as I can tell. See my post on here under "Men who Sew." I would bet that the collar and stand were just cut and pasted from a women's blouse pattern with not much thought given to what a man's shirt collar really looks like. There are plenty of commercial patterns and even David Coffin's book to refer to for design of men's shirt collars. These are much flatter with a wider stand for the most part. About the only thing I have been able to come up with for fixing the neck and collar problems with TM involved working with Pattern Editor to redraft the collar and stand. Not easy to do. As far as the neck opening goes, I will try lengthening the shoulder settings and see what happens. Thanks.
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ChristineBrown
Posted 2010-02-16 4:52 PM (#61254 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects


Tony, if you are still making shirts, could I suggest that instead of touching the slopes to make your neck draft smaller that you lengthen the shoulder lengths? I was making my husband's shirts and having this same problem until it finally hit me, something that Karen repeated often enough--the only thing the shoulder length affects is the size of the neck. For some reason I heard that but didn't see it as the answer to my problems. It was. Now I can't suggest anything to do with the stand unfortunately.
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-02-16 7:38 PM (#61255 - in reply to #61249)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



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Location: music city, USA
stmike i'll come back when i have a little more time and reply more fully but to respond to your collar issue:

the draft is NOT a cut and paste of the women's pattern.  it is the programmer's choice of how to draft the collar.  every patternmaker must choose how he/she prefers to draft, this is lisa's way.

redrafting the collar and stand in PE is not hard, i have done it in minutes.  you might consider the book " digital flat pattern" which has detailed instructions on how to do this, or perhaps the classes at fashion design online.  lisa and i wrote book together and taught the classes that are available as downloadable files at FDO.

i am available for individual instruction and can demonstrate how to make your collar pattern in an online meeting.  drafting in CAD requires a completely different set of skills and techniques than drafting on paper.  

FWIW, david coffin likes my shirts.

also, lengthening the shoulder makes the neck SMALLER, not bigger.  this is because the program draws the shoulder line from the shoulder point toward the neck, using the slopes you gave it as the starting point. 


also, i am in boonville at least twice a month, and there is a certified educator who lives in newburg, either of us would be glad to meet you in person to help.


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cfonfold
Posted 2010-02-16 9:14 PM (#61256 - in reply to #61249)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Expert

Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK

Rowena's reply deserves careful consideration While it is not the complete answer, because there are other factors. But this is the first to consider.(In my opinion) Knowing how the width at the shoulder is set and where the shoulder originates is the prime piece of information.  Keeping this in mind, measure the neck circumference in the large screen. You might be surprised. And this is the way you draft the shoulder area manually. Karen is also very careful to tell you that the neck measure is used to determine the size of the back neck line.

And here we go again---using the measures as drafting tools! Wheeeeeeeeeeee

One thing to keep in mind is that PMB promises good patterns. But it doesn't promise that you won't have to think. Nor that you won't have to adjust the patterns to your own liking. That's what makes them custom.  And custom patterns are only as good as your patternmaking skills. And having said that --I don't always think so good at all!

Coopie

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StMike
Posted 2010-02-17 6:53 PM (#61265 - in reply to #61255)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 537
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
Thanks, Rowena. I don't want to overstate the problems with the TM shirt pattern. Overall, I like the fit with the exception of the collar and stand, which apparently are specific to the programmer's opinions or tastes. However, I have not found anywhere a collar (or stand) pattern with that steep of a curve at the front, and I have looked. Also, none of my commercial shirts (RTW) have that collar feature to that extent. Most are pretty darned flat in the front, as are the stands, which are all at least 1.25" wide (TM gives only a 1" wide stand). I am working with Pattern Editor and learning it fast. I did redraft both the collar and stand (took a lot longer than a few minutes, but I am getting there). Also, I followed Lisa's advice and took the band collar (1.5") and narrowed it to 1.25" Guess I could have done that during sewing or cutting with little problem but wanted to practice more on Pattern Editor. My certified instructor has tried to help me already, but I still had to learn to use Pattern Editor anyway. Yes, I know increasing the shoulder length with make the neck opening smaller. The problem I had was too large a neck opening. Thanks again.
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-02-18 8:34 AM (#61269 - in reply to #61265)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



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Location: music city, USA
commercial patterns are generic, they shouldn't be held up as a standard for a custom fit.

ALL patterns are specific to the patternmaker's opinion or taste.  my patterns don't look like lisa's, they probably don't look like coopie's, and i know they don't look like the cutters i learned from.  big deal.  i just make them fit.  with necks and collars particularly i always muslin and i never expect a perfect fit until after i have tweaked it on the body.


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StMike
Posted 2010-02-18 2:49 PM (#61286 - in reply to #55465)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 537
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
I thought we were concerned with "design" and not "fit"? I agreed that the fit for the body of the shirt was fine. I think that the design for the collar and stand are "off standard" for men's wear.
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rowena___.
Posted 2010-02-18 3:50 PM (#61301 - in reply to #61286)
Subject: RE: Tony's projects



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Location: music city, USA
what good is a custom pattern that doesn't fit

even a costume has to fit, and that is nothing BUT design.


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