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Sleeve twist
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GloriaD
Posted 2017-02-23 6:30 PM (#91853)
Subject: Sleeve twist


Regular

Posts: 54
2525
I have been struggling with my sleeves.
I've adjusted the sleeves and I've adjusted the back and front.
I've cut up a knit shirt that fits well and tried to redo the pattern pieces.
The sleeves all twist inward towards under my arm.
The actual sleeve twist even more than what shows in the photo.





(IMG_0464.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_0464.JPG (26KB - 1 downloads)
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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2017-02-24 12:35 AM (#91854 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: RE: Sleeve twist



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Without seeing the summary this is a guess.

 You need more cap height.  Maybe a slmmer wrist setting..

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GloriaD
Posted 2017-02-24 7:37 AM (#91857 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist


Regular

Posts: 54
2525
I'm going through yards and yards of fabric. I don't mind that at all.
So I'm trying out different blouses designs with their corresponding sleeves.
I'm starting to wonder if the adjustment should be in the body of the blouse.
And then, of course, it could be my own body pitch. There still needs to be adjustment.
When I went online and simply look at knit tops, I see this problem a lot.
I simply trying to get a sewn pattern to lay like some tops in my closet.
I know there must be a solution.
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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2017-02-24 7:39 AM (#91858 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Are you using Boutique or Knits?

Did you do your fit top?
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sewsally
Posted 2017-02-24 11:53 AM (#91860 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1057
10002525
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Do have a knit sleeve you like? Measure across the bicep and the sleeve cap height.
And duplicate it in PMK using the cap height, cap ease and other settings. Check the measurements as you go along using the full screen.
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EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2017-02-24 3:32 PM (#91861 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: RE: Sleeve twist


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 528
50025
Location: Eugene OR
Is it possible to see your entire arm in a photo  from the front and from the side? One other guess is...do your palms face more towards your back instead of towards your side when your arm hangs naturally? If this is the case, and adding to the cap and adding more bicep ease doesn't work, it could be your elbow rotates outwards. That's an alteration that is best done manually, for fitted styles.

Shel
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bmc
Posted 2017-02-25 7:45 AM (#91862 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist


Member

Posts: 10

Hi, I'm a novice but love a challenge and fitting quiz But, looks like you have a combination of problems with the sleeve - Diagonal folds means the sleeve is pulling for both length and width issues, and also looks like it is pulling the bodice up and back?

IMO trying to cut up a knit garmet to make a pattern doesn't work - the knit stretches or shrinks, so you won't get the same pattern that way. I have also had failures with the "rub off" method of garmet copying. And sleeve seams being on the bias really stretch when you cut them.

Have you tried the cut/slash method on one of the "wadders" to see what removes the wrinkles? It does work.

Do post pics of the entire top with full length of the sleeves and bodice front, back and from the affected side to better opinions.

IMO it is better to start with a sloper and either adjust for knits or use the knits program. Then you can measure areas of the garmets you are trying to duplicate and adjust for those features.


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StMike
Posted 2017-02-27 7:40 PM (#91870 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 541
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Have you tried rotating the sleeve in the armhole slightly to the front (or to the back) of the shoulder seam to see if that helps?
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HeleninTX
Posted 2017-02-27 8:43 PM (#91871 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: RE: Sleeve twist


Veteran

Posts: 136
10025
Location: Irving, TX

For the wrinkles at the top, my suggestion would to unstitch the top of the cap.  Put the top back on and measure the distant that the cap drops from the top of the armhole (at shoulder seam) after adjusting to eliminate wrinkles.  I would add that amount to the cap height. 

 Can't see all of the sleeve, so don't have any suggestions for lower wrinkles.  Even if I saw it don't know that I would have answers.

Good Luck.

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Cate - Gold Coast
Posted 2017-03-29 6:35 AM (#91941 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist


Elite Veteran

Posts: 681
500100252525
I am interested in the comments about rotated elbow. When I stand with my arms loose, the palms definitely face the back. And yes, my fitted sleeves have wrinkles so I am curious as to what adjustments you make EasilyAmewsed?

WHen I have wrinkles similar to the above, I usually raise the cap height manually because using settings narrows the sleeve too much.
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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2017-03-29 10:43 AM (#91945 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
I put on a knit tunic and turned my palms back. There is a slight forward motion of the shoulder. Perhaps moving the cap a bit forward will help.

A long straight sleeve will have wrinkles. The closer it fits to the arm the less change of a wrinkle.
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EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2017-03-29 2:55 PM (#91947 - in reply to #91941)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 528
50025
Location: Eugene OR

I initially found an answer in Leichy's "Fitting and Pattern Alteration" book, but this blogger shows it in action. Highly recommend that book, especially the 2nd edition, since it has 3 plus size alterations not in the original version ( which I also have) and whole lot more.
Outward Rotation of the Elbow Fix

Shel 

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StMike
Posted 2017-03-30 8:59 AM (#91948 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 541
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
With the paper pattern adjustments presented in the blog noted above, is the net effect not just a rotation of the sleeve cap forward? We can do that in PMB with just a simple sleeve cap adjustment in Style Editor settings.
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EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2017-03-30 5:57 PM (#91951 - in reply to #91948)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 528
50025
Location: Eugene OR

The typical forward shoulder adjustment slides the cap forward, which takes care problems at the shoulder ball. It addresses the pulling and the placement of a shoulder seam that's too far back. Yes, you can change the pitch of the sleeve a bit if you add tipping the cap to the adjustment like this, but it doesn't deal with the twisting in the lower half:
Forward Sleeve Cap "TIp"

Physically, this is the difference between how an 'average' person's arm hangs and  those with the outward elbow ( I finally updated the .jpg). If you had this issue and not forward shoulder, I wouldn't mess up the shoulder fit in settings to try and fix this.
Outward Elbow Rotation

The outward elbow adjustment adds a little width to the elbow area and shifts the underarm seam at the wrist. It doesn't change the shoulders or sleeve pitch. Like the blogger mentioned, you can get away with it easier with knits. IF the sleeve style is full, it's a cosmetic thing, but when it's closer fitting, or with some unforgiving fabrics, it's physically annoying.
Outward Elbow Alt

Shel

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StMike
Posted 2017-03-30 6:06 PM (#91952 - in reply to #91853)
Subject: Re: Sleeve twist



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 541
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Thanks, Shel. That does clear things up, especially the added diagram.
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