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Sticky Question for those who work with clients
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-03 9:53 AM (#88278)
Subject: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Auburn, AL
Hi All,

We are frequently asked why we don't take more measurements than we do. Those of you who have been with us from the beginning know that we used to take 3 times the number we do now. Over the years, we have turned many of the measurements into settings to make PatternMaster more flexible.

We have heard recently from some new customers who work with clients or family that they wish they knew to take other "measurements" in addition to the ones on our measurement chart screen. Since measurements such as inseam length or sleeve length are not on the measurement chart screen, new customers don't know to gather that type of information.

So, for those of you who have dressmaking businesses and work with clients, what other measurement type information do you/would you collect? Is that the type of information you store in the Notes fields?
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pldesigns
Posted 2014-07-04 9:02 AM (#88281 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: RE: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Holyoke, MA

Hi Lisa, 

Two measurements I always found critical were chest width, measured straight across the front from arm crease to arm crease, and blade width,  measured straight across the back, again from arm crease to arm crease.  I would also measure how far down from the neck point that measurement was, and then make sure there was at least an inch of ease, especially in the back.   The armhole setting buttons helped , especially in the front.   Using it for the back  would help slightly but it seemed to remove fabric from the sleeve.  Sometimes if a client had a  very broad back, I'd have to change the back shoulder measurement, redistribute the large dart, or create a shaped center back seam.   I developed my own measurement chart with the necessary PMB measurements in bold, settings in regular type, ( these were measurements I use to take befor PMB) and any others not addressed in settings, that I would use a check, like chest and blade width, in italics.  Using the printed form made sure I covered all the bases while I had the client there, and then entered everything into the computer later.

 Hope this helps.

Sue

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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-04 11:09 AM (#88282 - in reply to #88281)
Subject: RE: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Auburn, AL
Hi Sue,

Thanks for your input. Would you mind sharing your form with me? Perhaps its something we could include in our documentation.
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pldesigns
Posted 2014-07-04 11:50 AM (#88283 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Sure Lisa, I'll send you a copy.
sue
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-07-04 1:33 PM (#88284 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Most of the additional measures I take are recorded in notes.
Many depend on the type of clothing I'm planning on. Some can be extrapolated form the PMB & T measures.
I take the ones that Sue mentions as a matter of course as well as some that apply only to dance or tailoring.
I in no way think all these need to added to the PMB measurement chart, which is pretty darned efficient as it is. But perhaps a reminder to the measurer that they may be necessary.
I often take all the custom measures as well. And then calculate. If I don't need them they go into notes.

PMB:
Under and over bust. A lot of my clients haven't a clue as to their cup size! And I do a lot of fitted empire garments.
Both high and low hip
Abdomen if very heavy
Under bust to floor
Girth

I still use Celebrations a lot. IT has most of the bodices and trains that I use to begin a formal gown. The trains are lovely.

PMT
A measurement completely around the shoulder. Gives me a t least a hint as to how much to plan beyond the shoulder for a straight sleeve drop.
Arm length from CB to wrist with arm bent. This will give the commercial sleeve length==32-34- etc.
CB around neck to crest of chest and then to waist. For vests
CB of neck to the bottom of buttocks, middle of knee, and top of calf. Length of finished coat.
Inseam
PMT is not really formulated to draft for tailoring so it could be that these are entirely un-necessary.
Coopie
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-05 7:00 PM (#88287 - in reply to #88284)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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cfonfold - 2014-07-04 12:33 PM
PMT is not really formulated to draft for tailoring so it could be that these are entirely un-necessary.
Coopie


Hi Coopie,

Could you please explain what you mean by this statement and what changes you have to make to the patterns or measurements, etc. for tailoring?
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-06 8:10 AM (#88288 - in reply to #88284)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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cfonfold - 2014-07-04 12:33 PM
Under and over bust. A lot of my clients haven't a clue as to their cup size! And I do a lot of fitted empire garments.
Girth


Coopie, how do you use the under and over bust to determine cup size? How do you measure girth?
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-07-06 10:12 AM (#88289 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK
Lisa I'm not ignoring you-- just a very busy family week-end.
Coopie
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-06 1:45 PM (#88290 - in reply to #88289)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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I was getting really worried
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-07-06 2:41 PM (#88291 - in reply to #88290)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients (long)



Expert

Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK

Hi Lisa

 

Most of these are to check patternwork. And are not perhaps really necessary for drafting.

Ribcage( or underbust) helps with close fitting mid-drifts and empire bands. Underbust to knee/floor gives the skirt information.

Overbust gives me the bra band----although it’s an older method I find it very accurate. The same subtraction WG uses still gives me the cup size. It’s amusing how many high school girls wear a 34C. Not! Overbust is also helpful to me for strapless garments and tightly fitted bodices for dance.

I measure girth from the shoulder through the crotch and back to the shoulder.

I didn’t mean to imply that WG’s patterns could not be used for tailoring. They just seem to me to be more usefull for  unconstructed, softer applications. They remind me very much of Vogue’s womens wear tailoring. And of course “Tailoring” has more to do with construction than pattern drafting.  

I learned to draft using “The Master Tailor”----“Modern Garment Design and Grading Clothing for Men & Boys”   And the same for “Women & Girls”.  I don’t know If it is available anymore. Last copywrited 1979. It drafts the body very much the same shape you use. But the collar and sleeves are really very simple and easy to work with. And really very beautiful. Since in the classic approach the over collar is often applied by hand, the simpler the better!

Most everything else is more than adaptable. I wish for a  jacket with a side body and therefor a sleeker line. It also allows a hortizontal dart that is hidden by the pocket for fitting those pesky “Santa shapes” But that can all be done at the table.

With any luck at all I will be making Donn a jacket this summer! Now that I have my coat done.

Coopie

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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-07 2:31 PM (#88292 - in reply to #88291)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients (long)



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Location: Auburn, AL
I didn’t mean to imply that WG’s patterns could not be used for tailoring. They just seem to me to be more useful for unconstructed, softer applications. They remind me very much of Vogue’s womens wear tailoring. And of course “Tailoring” has more to do with construction than pattern drafting.


I know. I am working on new documentation and wondered if you there are pattern drafting changes you make that facilitate tailoring such as cutting the under collar smaller than the upper collar that I might be able to describe.

Most everything else is more than adaptable. I wish for a jacket with a side body and therefor a sleeker line. It also allows a horizontal dart that is hidden by the pocket for fitting those pesky “Santa shapes” But that can all be done at the table.


Do you have an example of this style you could send me? Is it different from the Panel Jacket or Panel Styleline?
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-07-08 4:00 PM (#88293 - in reply to #88290)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Posts: 1972
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Location: Norman,OK


 o you have an example of this style you could send me? Is it different from the Panel Jacket or Panel Styleline?

It is different. More like a gore or princess seam. Classic Tailoring Techniques by Cabrera and Meyers has many good diagrams and photos that show it well.

 It's been a while since I did a jacket for Donn and it was a summer linen very lightly tailored. I'm looking forward to doing a winter one now that I really do have time.

The blazer pattern in PMT requires a good deal of PE work and it helps if one has used  these shapes before.

I really don't want to seem as if I am trying to teach my Grandmother to suck eggs--you and Karen as whiz pattern makers. But I really do wish you had a better collar. One more  along  traditional lines. Or maybe offer two approaches.

The two-piece sleeve ( I have always loved the fact that It drafts to the armscye with each change) works better in a blazer if the cap height is increased and the hem width is accurate. Raising the elbow point helps with the shape.

And many don't realize that the sleeve should never be cut until the armscye is adjusted.

I'm attaching a las. of the place I stand with Donn's jacket right now. It mostly shows the changes I make in PE.

Coopie 





Attachments
----------------
Attachments Changes.las (19KB - 24 downloads)
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-08 4:29 PM (#88294 - in reply to #88293)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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cfonfold - 2014-07-08 3:00 PM
--you and Karen as whiz pattern makers. But I really do wish you had a better collar. One more  along  traditional lines. Or maybe offer two approaches.


Thanks for the compliment. I always like to learn new approaches though and hopefully never think I know it all. Can you give an example of your collar pattern and how it differs from mine?
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-07-08 8:33 PM (#88295 - in reply to #88294)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Norman,OK

While a bit smaller in scale--Harriet Pepin's "Modern Pattern Design", Chapter 7 , Tailored Suit Collars is very, very similar to the men's collar I use.

Coopie 

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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-07-10 11:40 AM (#88299 - in reply to #88295)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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cfonfold - 2014-07-08 7:33 PM

While a bit smaller in scale--Harriet Pepin's "Modern Pattern Design", Chapter 7 , Tailored Suit Collars is very, very similar to the men's collar I use.

Coopie 



I took a look at the collars in Pepin. Its a bit hard to see the end result. If you have an example of the collar you like, send it to me and I will take a stab at it.
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Helene
Posted 2014-10-12 11:55 AM (#88741 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients


Member

Posts: 14

I was wondering how to get an accurate cup size for the measurement chart?
I know that for myself, the brand and style can affect which retail cup size fits me best.
Several of my friends have cup sizes like FF and GG.
I know that many women don't know their correct cup size. I have seen a couple different ways to measure and calculate cup size.
I didn't see anything about how to measure it in the help files.
Thanks!
Helene
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-10-12 12:11 PM (#88742 - in reply to #88741)
Subject: Re: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Auburn, AL
Helene - 2014-10-12 10:55 AM

I was wondering how to get an accurate cup size for the measurement chart?
I know that for myself, the brand and style can affect which retail cup size fits me best.
Several of my friends have cup sizes like FF and GG.
I know that many women don't know their correct cup size. I have seen a couple different ways to measure and calculate cup size.
I didn't see anything about how to measure it in the help files.
Thanks!
Helene


Hi Helene,

Look on page 11 in the Measuring and Fit Guide. Step 8 indicates how to measure if you do not know the retail bra cup size.
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Polly
Posted 2016-03-01 10:25 PM (#90999 - in reply to #88278)
Subject: RE: Question for those who work with clients


Member

Posts: 6

There use to be a measurement that provided the bust point. I wish that was still available. Is that included in the settings. I admit I haven't been sewing clothing for a couple of years and am out of the loop. I just got my Pattern Master back in business and am trying to get acquainted with version 6.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2016-03-01 11:02 PM (#91000 - in reply to #90999)
Subject: RE: Question for those who work with clients



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Location: Auburn, AL
Polly - 2016-03-01 9:25 PM

There use to be a measurement that provided the bust point. I wish that was still available. Is that included in the settings. I admit I haven't been sewing clothing for a couple of years and am out of the loop. I just got my Pattern Master back in business and am trying to get acquainted with version 6.


Yes, the bust point location is two settings - dart point horizontal and dart point vertical. You can find them on the Darts tab.
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