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StMike
Posted 2014-05-18 6:02 PM (#87865 - in reply to #87860)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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I am  just not sure when I should consider using them for garments.  I understand how they help with the fitting garment but not other garments.  Since we have so many choices in Settings, the role defaults play is not clear.  Maybe it is because I have not yet got a single pattern that I wanted to replicate exactly.  I am getting close in shirts and jeans but not there yet.  I guess if I did get such a pattern, I could set a lot of the defaults to make it easier to replicate the garment.  But as long as I keep experimenting with things, the defaults are something I don't consider.  I may want to set some alerts to remind me to set defaults for some settings.  Another thing that confused me is that one has to make a number of additional measurements to set some of the defaluts, for examples the leg measurements for the shorts, bermuda, capri, etc.  And the same for the arm, such as the short sleeve length, the elbow depth and the wrist.  I am not sure I ever got those right.  I can see that if I ever get the right crotch curve for my pants, I can use defaults to make the right settings every time.  That would be a big help.  But so far, I have been unsuccessful at getting the pants to fit just right in the crotch curve and upper thigh areas.  So, I have not considered any defaults yet for that.  Maybe we need just a more detailed WIKI (or paid class) just on using defaults with some real life examples.
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familysewn
Posted 2014-05-18 6:24 PM (#87867 - in reply to #87862)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You


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I actually meant the fit garment. I don't know if I can explain this well. Say I made the fit garment and there are still fit issues. I would like to go in and try different changes and compare. I think I would have to save that 1st fit g and then use that and set that as the sloper. So I continue making some changes and think this would be ok....then I would have to save those changes and compare. every time I would have to go out save it as the the new sloper. If I didnt like it after comparing, again, I would have to do the same. Is there an easier way to make something into a sloper in the style editer where I am viewing these changes that I am just trying to see what would work? Ugh , I know this explanation isn't good
Barb

Ps Which ever way I have to do it it would be helpful to have an article or tutorial on how to compare changes. I struggled with this in the beginning and still do.

Edited by familysewn 2014-05-18 6:28 PM
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Tall Karen
Posted 2014-05-18 6:24 PM (#87868 - in reply to #87860)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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What confuses me about defaults is when it's set, I think that that setting will be applied to all styles. But then it seems like it isn't, for example jeans. If I set the CB waist drop at 1", I expect it to be 1" down on the draft, but the draft automatically makes it 1.5".. Is this 1.5" different than the default, or 1.5" total including the default, therefore 2.5" total? I feel like it's new math and I can't get it. arghh

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cfonfold
Posted 2014-05-18 7:29 PM (#87872 - in reply to #87853)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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It's my belief that the defaults are a very important and valuable portion of the program. I truly believe that most of them  originate in the alteration of the fitting garment. Which is what we are guided to base our own personal standards of fit on. (There's that word again!)  But that is what standards are. Personal--For each of us -individually.

But when you first read through them defaults and settings seem much the same. 

Settings is easier to work with then defaults .You can see the pattern change as you work. Defaults has no visual reassurance.

I never use settings in the FG section

I don't think that settings are needed at all with the fitting garment. It's the shell that proves that all the measurements are in the correct place for that individual . There is no style involved. And having the reshape tools in both places totally confuses me.

While StMike is correct in that there are additional measurements to be entered in defaults, most come from the FG. Or can be obtained quickly enough.   

But that red sloper- always the same, every time, is my lifeline! With that, changing the defaults for blouses, dresses, pants, and sheaths is a snap. I even use the same defaults for jumpsuits, and I wouldn't be caught dead in one! And after the  basic styles are set with their own defaults, using the settings is a joy.

Coopie 

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EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2014-05-18 7:37 PM (#87873 - in reply to #87863)
Subject: Quick Start (Re: Help Us Help You)


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I like the 'Quick Start" video myself. ; )

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WcWFKA_GbU

It also includes the visuals mentioned in the Quick Start text in step 4. I actually did not notice the button to the Quick Start series in the top menu bar at first, but it's nice those included in the program and are broken down in the sections.

Shel

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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-18 7:56 PM (#87876 - in reply to #87868)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Tall Karen - 2014-05-18 5:24 PM
What confuses me about defaults is when it's set, I think that that setting will be applied to all styles. But then it seems like it isn't, for example jeans. If I set the CB waist drop at 1", I expect it to be 1" down on the draft, but the draft automatically makes it 1.5".. Is this 1.5" different than the default, or 1.5" total including the default, therefore 2.5" total? I feel like it's new math and I can't get it. arghh


The defaults are there as a place for the program to start with your personal preferences once you have determined what you want them to be. But sometimes in order to draft a particular style, the style has to override the defaults - such as the oversized shirt, caftan, or sweatpants, for example. They are drafted large than the ease defaults. The classic jeans are the same thing. The jeans style drafts the cf, cb, and ss down 1.5 inches overriding the default settings. That's just how we make that style. If you turn on the red sloper, you will see that difference displayed.
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StMike
Posted 2014-05-18 8:07 PM (#87877 - in reply to #87824)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Coopie, your comments are very enlightening and helpful. You have given me a fresh perspective on defaults. Thank you.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-18 8:08 PM (#87878 - in reply to #87872)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Hi Coopie,

I never use settings in the FG section. I don't think that settings are needed at all with the fitting garment. It's the shell that proves that all the measurements are in the correct place for that individual . There is no style involved. And having the reshape tools in both places totally confuses me.


We have settings on the fit garments screen because we do have customers that make more than one fit garment and need to change some of the settings there before printing a new fit garment. If you mean the shape tools that are on the defaults screen, they are there so that they can be set as the defaults for the red sloper overlay. The default settings for the fit garments are reflected in the red sloper overlay so you do have a point of visual reference to them.

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EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2014-05-18 8:10 PM (#87880 - in reply to #87872)
Subject: Defaults( Re: Help Us Help You


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I think the defaults are awesome. Some stuff never changes..like bust height and leg length so having those applied to the sloper does help me since it can be switched on in SE.  I haven't applied the reshaping in defaults as I see those as fine tuning in SE. For instance, armhole shaping can change between styles so I might not need it in all instances.

Shel

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Tall Karen
Posted 2014-05-18 8:13 PM (#87881 - in reply to #87824)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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this thread has been very helpful and as always, I'm in awe of this powerful program and continue to strive to master it's intricacies! Thanks.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-18 8:20 PM (#87883 - in reply to #87867)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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familysewn - 2014-05-18 5:24 PM

I actually meant the fit garment. I don't know if I can explain this well. Say I made the fit garment and there are still fit issues. I would like to go in and try different changes and compare. I think I would have to save that 1st fit g and then use that and set that as the sloper. So I continue making some changes and think this would be ok....then I would have to save those changes and compare. every time I would have to go out save it as the the new sloper. If I didnt like it after comparing, again, I would have to do the same. Is there an easier way to make something into a sloper in the style editer where I am viewing these changes that I am just trying to see what would work? Ugh , I know this explanation isn't good
Barb

Ps Which ever way I have to do it it would be helpful to have an article or tutorial on how to compare changes. I struggled with this in the beginning and still do.


I think I understand what you are explaining but I think you might be making the fitting process more difficult that it has to be. We believe (and I think we have proven it over the years) that you should not have to make more than two fitting garments to test your measurement and settings preferences. Once you have the first fit garment on, you should be able to see where the majority of changes need to be made.

If you want to compare changes though, set the fit garments defaults after making the first fit garment so that they are reflected in the red sloper overlay. Then, as you are making changes to the next fit garment you will be able to see how they compare to the previous fit garment. Otherwise, I think you only option would be to save the patterns and open them in PE and overlay them to see your changes. I don't think that is something we can build into the program.

May I ask, what changes are you wanting to compare and to what end?
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-18 8:24 PM (#87884 - in reply to #87865)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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StMike - 2014-05-18 5:02 PM
Another thing that confused me is that one has to make a number of additional measurements to set some of the defaluts, for examples the leg measurements for the shorts, bermuda, capri, etc.  And the same for the arm, such as the short sleeve length, the elbow depth and the wrist.  I am not sure I ever got those right. 


There really isn't any right or wrong here. Its just a place to start. The easiest thing to do is measure items in your closet to get a feel for how long you like your shorts or elbow length sleeve, etc. But, you don't have to set all of the defaults if you don't want to. There is actually no requirement at all to use any of the defaults. The program will continue to use our factory defaults until you change them.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-18 8:25 PM (#87885 - in reply to #87880)
Subject: RE: Defaults( Re: Help Us Help You



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EasilyAmewsed - 2014-05-18 7:10 PM

I think the defaults are awesome. Some stuff never changes..like bust height and leg length so having those applied to the sloper does help me since it can be switched on in SE.  I haven't applied the reshaping in defaults as I see those as fine tuning in SE. For instance, armhole shaping can change between styles so I might not need it in all instances.

Shel



Shel, you are exactly right!
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JoAnndjob
Posted 2014-05-18 8:47 PM (#87886 - in reply to #87824)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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The hardest part of the programs for me has always been the sleeves. I think having a list of suggested settings to start from for certain sleeve styles would be helpful. The full cap sleeve in earlier versions of the software automatically lowered the cap height. I know that is a preference, but in general the cap sleeve does have a lower cap height in garments. The cut-on cap is a great style once you know how to change the armhole shape settings and shoulder length. I would never have discovered this without Coopie's help. I'm sure there are other sleeves that would benefit from suggested settings.
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Cate - Gold Coast
Posted 2014-05-18 10:26 PM (#87889 - in reply to #87824)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You


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One thing I find frustrating is that you cannot control the sleeve width at bicep level and elbow level. My first blouse had tapered sleeves with cuffs - the wrist fitted, the bicep fitted but the middle of the arm was too tight. This is because the draft basically draws a straight line from bicep level to wrist level.

These days, I manually change a long fitted sleeve at elbow level to make sure it will go around me.
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Grandma C
Posted 2014-05-19 12:52 AM (#87891 - in reply to #87863)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You


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Lisa, guess I just went from versions 3-4-5 and by the time I got to 5 I missed it. I surely do not remember seeing it on my first attempt. I do love the software but these are some things I missed.
Belinda
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StMike
Posted 2014-05-19 10:31 AM (#87898 - in reply to #87851)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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StMike - 2014-05-18 2:33 PM Would it be possible to have the Summary/Defaults review screen stay open while you make changes in Settings? I like to check the finished garment measurements frequently as I make selections in Settings. Now, one has to open the Review Summary screen scroll to the area wanted and the close the screen before making any further changes in settings. Then go through the whole sequence again to check the results. It would be convenient to have the Review screen stay open while making settings changes and have it refresh (or manually tell it to refresh) after a new setting is selected. That way you could easily follow the results of your choices as you work.

 

This comment did not get addressed.  It is not feasible?

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cfonfold
Posted 2014-05-19 10:39 AM (#87900 - in reply to #87878)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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I'm only speaking of the Fitting garment screen. I find the style screens very comfortable.
To use the shaping tools in defaults you must have written the numbers down while in settings
But you don't know that if your a beginner until you get to it in the default screen. That's back in the "rafting" screen. And then switch screens to enter them into defaults. And switch back to perhaps continue your work or perhaps check to see that you have remembered correctly. And don't forget to save.
It's mainly a bump in the road, clumsy. I'm not the very best user. I often accept clumsiness as part of the territory. It was a major irritation when I entered many charts at a time. Now it's just me, family, and a very, very small home "business".
In the style screens the settings become part of the pattern it's self and are saved with it. Very nice. If the style defaults are already in place you rarely need go there to produce another garment using that chart.
Coopie

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Joyce F
Posted 2014-05-19 11:53 AM (#87903 - in reply to #87824)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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I did not see my remarks on this subject so maybe I forgot to click submit.
First I would love to see the printed summary in the same order as the settings screen. It drives me crazy when I want to check back on my work.
Secondly, I have to be so careful where my cursor is on the settings screen, Because if I accidently touch the scroll bar, some of my settings get changed and end up with patterns that I can't possibly use.
Joyce
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StMike
Posted 2014-05-19 12:53 PM (#87906 - in reply to #87903)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Joyce F - 2014-05-19 10:53 AM I did not see my remarks on this subject so maybe I forgot to click submit. First I would love to see the printed summary in the same order as the settings screen. It drives me crazy when I want to check back on my work. Secondly, I have to be so careful where my cursor is on the settings screen, Because if I accidently touch the scroll bar, some of my settings get changed and end up with patterns that I can't possibly use. Joyce

I have also learned the hard way that in order to have the cursor release the selection box just worked in and keep the setting intact, I have to click on an unrelated button somewhere else on the screen - doesn't matter which one.  Otherwise, the wheel on the mouse does just change the setting even if have moved on. I think that may be a windows problem, though?

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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-19 2:13 PM (#87908 - in reply to #87903)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Joyce F - 2014-05-19 10:53 AM
I did not see my remarks on this subject so maybe I forgot to click submit.

Secondly, I have to be so careful where my cursor is on the settings screen, Because if I accidently touch the scroll bar, some of my settings get changed and end up with patterns that I can't possibly use.
Joyce


You did not see this post to the forums because you have been emailing them directly to me. When you reply to the email notification, it comes to me instead of being posted to the forums. You have to log into the forums in order to post to a thread. I did email you back regarding this post.

The scrolling is a feature built into your mouse driver. Your mouse will behave that way in all Windows programs not just PatternMaster so its not something we can control. If you don't want it to scroll, turn that off in your mouse settings.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-19 2:16 PM (#87909 - in reply to #87898)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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StMike - 2014-05-19 9:31 AM

StMike - 2014-05-18 2:33 PM Would it be possible to have the Summary/Defaults review screen stay open while you make changes in Settings? I like to check the finished garment measurements frequently as I make selections in Settings. Now, one has to open the Review Summary screen scroll to the area wanted and the close the screen before making any further changes in settings. Then go through the whole sequence again to check the results. It would be convenient to have the Review screen stay open while making settings changes and have it refresh (or manually tell it to refresh) after a new setting is selected. That way you could easily follow the results of your choices as you work.

 

This comment did not get addressed.  It is not feasible?



I don't think this one is likely something that can be done. If the Summary screen is displayed, it will have to cover one side or the other of the Style screen. Even if the Style Summary screen stays and manually refresh it to recalculate, it will move the scroll bars back to the top and you will have to scroll again.
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Lisa - Tech Support
Posted 2014-05-19 2:17 PM (#87910 - in reply to #87900)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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cfonfold - 2014-05-19 9:39 AM

I'm only speaking of the Fitting garment screen. I find the style screens very comfortable.
To use the shaping tools in defaults you must have written the numbers down while in settings
But you don't know that if your a beginner until you get to it in the default screen. That's back in the "drafting" screen. And then switch screens to enter them into defaults. And switch back to perhaps continue your work or perhaps check to see that you have remembered correctly. And don't forget to save.
It's mainly a bump in the road, clumsy. I'm not the very best user. I often accept clumsiness as part of the territory. It was a major irritation when I entered many charts at a time. Now it's just me, family, and a very, very small home "business".
In the style screens the settings become part of the pattern it's self and are saved with it. Very nice. If the style defaults are already in place you rarely need go there to produce another garment using that chart.
Coopie



I see your point about the shape tools on the Fit Garments screen. Will think on that one.
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cfonfold
Posted 2014-05-19 4:30 PM (#87914 - in reply to #87877)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Hi Mike, I'm afraid I'm way dated and as they say "out of the fashion" but I fit all my FGs with a minimal of ease. Not super tight, but definitely 1950's little black dress tight. And I put the armscye right up there on the shoulder. Not extended at all. And the sleeve as high as possible. And all the horizontals level. This isn't a garment to be worn really. It's a tool.

OK given all that, I save all the changes necessary  to make it fit-- as defaults. All of them. Including reshaping the armscye and neck if necessary.  Reshaping the crotch is the hardest and takes the most time and deliberation.( But to honest this software drafts some of the best fitting classic trousers you could hope for. Right off the bat). If I am working long distance I have some-- ahem-- standards--that I have found tend to work well enough.

That means that the red sloper is as close as I can get to an accurate flat pattern of that individual. Like Peter Pan's shadow. Tucked away on my hard drive. I could place it on a model and pad it to have a good enough duplicate of the client.

When I open a style screen there it is with the classic style laid on top --or underneath as the case may be. I think of it as the body. That's where the shoulders are, that's where the bust point is etc. I set a new set of defaults for the style I'm in. Say blouses. Any drafting book or guide will give you some ballpark additions for a blouse, or jacket.  Ease, shoulder width, etc. Those should be saved and  become the defaults for the classic blouse. Same for jackets, same for sheaths, and pants. That means that when you call up the style screen some of the basic adjustments for garment choice are all ready done. And yes they must be tested--usually.  Really the rest is design.

 So there could be  many sets of defaults.It's a very good idea (INMHO) to have the FG as accurate as you can make it. 

Not everyone will use the software like I do. That's OK too.

Coopie 

 

 

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cfonfold
Posted 2014-05-20 10:00 AM (#87924 - in reply to #87867)
Subject: Re: Help Us Help You



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Say I made the fit garment and there are still fit issues. I would like to go in and try different changes and compare. I think I would have to save that 1st fit g and then use that and set that as the sloper. So I continue making some changes and think this would be ok....

When you are working in the FG screen you can merge saved patterns in order to make comparisons. It's a wonderfully handy tool. I use it a lot. I'd like more tool options of course, like align maybe. Well I guess what I would really like  is the whole cad program! Not asking , not asking!

Coopie 

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