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Where are the MEN?
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Ceil Moore
Posted 2006-11-02 1:27 PM (#24155 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


I agree, Rowena, but I also understand that they want something that speaks to their uniqueness. I recently saw a magazine called "Woodworking for Women" and I thought, after you've told them to keep their hair and their sleeves out of the machines, what else is different? I used to subscribe to a magazine about women in business, and found that it was really just sort of a basic business magazine. The flavor of the writing was toward women, but all the articles were very universal: dealing with your boss, how to buy office equipment, juggling business and family. These guys just need to be willing to ignore instructions about bust darts until there is a "Sewing for Men" magazine!

I've been offline for a while; Ella sure is getting big and she sure is cute!

Ceil
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Trish
Posted 2006-11-02 2:53 PM (#24158 - in reply to #24155)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



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I recently saw a magazine called "Woodworking for Women" and I thought, after you've told them to keep their hair and their sleeves out of the machines, what else is different?

LOL!  Well, as a woman who does woodworking (occasionally) I can tell you there is a big difference in the brute strength of a man and a woman!  Because of that, I have to use more 'stands' to support the wood, as I am not able to adequately hold and guide the large, heavy stuff like my husband can.  I suspect this magazine would give tips and suggestions for this type of compensation.

I once got a 'driller's elbow' injury, because the cordless drill I use is really a bit too heavy for me. 

Also, my hand is smaller than most men, so gripping these power tools can be challenging!   Power tools with smaller hand grips would be great...they are probably available, but I make do with what we have!  But I bet that magazine is full of advertisements for smaller, 'ergonomically correct' tools for women!

I don't usually have a problem with my hair getting in the way, though!

But getting back to the topic of sewing...I can totally see how a men's patternmaking program should include instructions specific to the way men's clothing are constructed! 

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jadney
Posted 2006-11-02 4:12 PM (#24160 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Veteran

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Location: Kansas City, Mo North of the River
I am also a sewer that does some woodworking. I have found one problem that my Dad does not have when he is woodworking, is wood shavings that end up in my bra.
I take the Wood Working for Women magazine. It is intresting and they have a little more detailed instructions about what to do and how to do it. Also nice diagrams which I find helpful. It has more crafty sort of things than some of the other woodworking magazines.
I agree, it would be nice to have instructions that match the program. But I also know documentation is very hard to keep up with.
Jane
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LI-teacher
Posted 2006-11-02 8:58 PM (#24176 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Be thankful it was only wood. My daughter learned to use the milling machine while on our school's robotics team. She was cutting aluminum and wearing a zip-front top which should have been zipped up a bit higher. Some hot metal found its way to a pace it really didn't belong!
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KarlO
Posted 2006-11-03 1:35 AM (#24181 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Rowena: Surely you are being a bit disingenuous. You must be aware, as little examples, that zippers and buttons (in America, anyway) are reversed? The case in point was about the waistband construction. Beth pointed out the philosophical difference, that men's clothing is more durable, and made easier to alter. (perhaps because so many men hate shopping for new clothes).

About those zippers: In Europe (and South Africa) the men's coat zippers are reversed from American. After a life time of doing it American-style, it is amazing how fumbling it is to do it the other way. I'm glad the buttons aren't reversed, I prefer button shirts to anything pullover.

As for the construction guides, it's not so much that the women's stuff is included, it's that one has to wade through it to find what you need, and most especially, when men's stuff is identified as such, but not the women's stuff, and only by finding the one labled 'mens' can one discover that the one without a label is not for general use. When it comes to books, how's a guy supposed to feel when 4/5ths of a book is about skirts and blouses, and how to shape around the female body? Or that nearly every 'how to sew' instruction seems to want to start with a skirt?!

Let's just be perfectly frank: It's sexism. We're all taught these days to avoid sexism when it comes to being male-centric. But the reverse is seldom discussed. I'm not saying it is deliberate or malicious. Life's taught me that most people mean well. But is often simply due to lack of forethought.

In sewing/fashion, it doesn't help one bit that women have far more demanding wardrobe needs (some of them about anatomy, some socieital). It's clear that women have more curves around which to tailor, and society places more value on a woman's appearence than a man's. But all that doesn't do much to help a guy that is out to learn to sew clothes for himself.


Karen: Thanks very much for the list of books/CDs, especially for taking the trouble to provide links. I'm carefully considering which to order (only to fight my native impulse to buy everything I hear about!). I have to make sure the sellers are prepared to ship overseas, too. It tends to take up to 2 months to get stuff from the States, and nearly always there's import taxes (which are only a pain because that means I have to pick stuff up at the postoffice, so I either have to have fair weather for my scooter, or wait and go Saturday morning). Some delays are due to customs inspectors taking their time. Faster deliveries end up costing far too much on international shipping.

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rowena___.
Posted 2006-11-03 7:41 AM (#24182 - in reply to #24181)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



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Location: music city, USA
KarlO - 2006-11-03 12:35 AM

Rowena: Surely you are being a bit disingenuous.


not at all. once you know how to put in a zipper, you can put it in anything, you can put it in left or right, you can put it in upside down if you wish.

i teach this every day, from patternmaking to construction, my students learn how to do the various operations and then they use them as needed. we build everything from biblical robes, to 16th century doublets (our current project), to depression-era suits. it is a natural progression of learning and it all applies for men, women, children, home dec, and toy making. trying to segregate it according to sex just makes for redundant learning.
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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2006-11-03 8:12 AM (#24183 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



Tech Support

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Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Here is a link for sewing instructions for men's pants.

http://www.independentliving.org/fashionfreaks/mpants.html
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Karen Maslowski
Posted 2006-11-03 9:29 AM (#24185 - in reply to #24181)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Member

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Karl, the reason that most fitting books focus on fitting womens' bodies is because women are almost endlessly variant in their shapes. As Kenneth King says, mens' bodies come in "three shapes", but women come in a tremendous variety of curves and possibilities.

Think about it; just the differences in the different kinds and combinations of busts can make a tremendous difference in how a garment is shaped for fitting. In fact, if you read the posts on this forum alone, you will see many. many posts regarding how to fit the bust/shoulder/back area, and that's because of the variety of possibilities in that area. The hips/waist/tummy/rear area is almost as variable, and even more complicated because of the issue of having the additional dimension of going through the legs and around them. Mens' clothing is very straightforward, by comparison. Even in ready-to-wear clothing, sizes are extremely simple, compared to womens'.

My suggestion is to embrace all the information you can find. It will make you even more competent as a fitter, and will give you a deeper understanding of how patterndrafting works for your own body.
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Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2006-11-03 9:35 AM (#24186 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



Tech Support

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Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Here is another link for on line constuction info.

http://www.husqvarnaviking.com/us/3368.htm
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Fabricarts
Posted 2006-11-03 9:43 AM (#24187 - in reply to #24186)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



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I'll add another sewing techniques site to the two excellent resources Karen gave: http://www.isew.co.uk/sewing-p-00007.htm

Miriam
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Ceil Moore
Posted 2006-11-03 9:49 AM (#24188 - in reply to #24176)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Sawdust, hot shavings and HAY! I did a ranch vacation last month, and every morning after feeding the horses I had to dig alfalfa out of my boobular groove (that's the anatomical term.)

Karen, wonderful description of why women are so much harder to fit. I can hardly conceive of buying clothes by mail order, except an elastic waist skirt maybe.

Trish, I have recently dug out your "driving room" directions, and I think that last weekend I came up with a shirt test that I will be able to wear happily. I have a roundish back, so I need the driving room even when I am standing still. For my ranch vacation, I went to the local boot store to get a long-sleeve cotton shirt. All the women's stuff was all sequined up, and the men's stuff was huge. I ended up with a Wrangler Boys' XL, a $14 poly-cotton plaid horror with serged seams, and it fit like a *champ*. I have quite the womanly figure (130#, 36C), so this was beyond exasperating. I became determined to get to the bottom of why my shirt drafts don't work, and I think (so far) that I have. Now I've got Coffin's book out again to remember how to do shirts.

Head 'em up, move 'em out in Athens
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pamelac858
Posted 2006-11-09 12:55 AM (#24378 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


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I LOVE the fact that men are joining us in our craft!

It's so gratifying to take 'nothing' and create 'something', simply for the creative thrill.

Welcome, and please post often!

Pam
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Beverly A.
Posted 2006-11-09 8:07 PM (#24409 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


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Karl:
If you want a really good book on men's tailoring, dig around on the web for: Classic Tailoring Techniques: A Construction Guide for Men's Wear by Roberto Cabrera/Patricia Flaherty Meyers. Fairchild Publications 1983 or 1984 edition.
That is the book we used in College level Men's Tailoring class. No women's clothing here (there is a separate women's tailoring book) I don't recall the price but being a used book it should be reasonable. I think the women's book came from Australia when I ordered it and even it got here quickly.
Beverly A.
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Frederick
Posted 2006-11-11 1:55 PM (#24443 - in reply to #24185)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Karen M, I feel compelled to rebut your comment of 11/03/06 that "Even in ready-to-wear clothing, sizes (for men) are extremely simple, compared to womens'." It's all in fun, Luv.

To very loosely and, with apologies to the Bard, somewhat irreverently paraphrase The Merchant of Venice, Act 3, Scene I. Venice. A street. SHYLOCK, here follows my rebuttal:

SHULTZLOCK
I am a man. Hath not a man legs, hips, waist, chest, arms, neck? Clothed by the same fabrics, sewn by the same threads, subject to the same soiling, cleaned by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same knits and microfibers, as a woman is? If we are like you in the rest, save ease enough for crotch or breast, we still resemble you in that. If a woman be taller or shorter than the norm, could not a man posses the same variances? Are not some men bent or stooped? Do not some stand taller on one side, protrude in front, sit on mounds of stored indulgences? Are no men possessed of a waist exceeding hips or chest? Unless.. in that, the accumulation of flab upon the chest does beg foundation meant for breasts! But when it comes to trouser legs, where differences of form betwixt man and woman demand our due in extra ease of wear, do we not still require our seams to go between our legs and then around our derriere?
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Trish
Posted 2006-11-11 3:17 PM (#24447 - in reply to #24443)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



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Location: Germantown, Tennessee

LOL!  Suitable for framing!!!  Well said!

And, Oh Man! can I empathize!  We have recently been shopping for a suit for my DS (age 22).  What a nightmare it can be, fitting an athletic body!  Yes, there are shorts and talls and regulars; athletic and portly and just generally...weird! 

And then they start trying to 'alter' a RTW suit to fit...  I learned that taking in the pants back seam creates a 'genital wedgie' when sitting.  It can also make the back pockets way too close together!  (I knew that wouldn't work!)

Oh, yeah...I can definitely see that advantages of 'made to measure'!  Even for men...

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kaybeesewing
Posted 2006-11-11 3:19 PM (#24448 - in reply to #24443)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Wonderful sense of humor. " You done the bard proud"!
Enter
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Fashions by Joellyn
Posted 2006-11-11 4:26 PM (#24450 - in reply to #24448)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Fred, that is a priceless reply--very clever, indeed. I laughed out loud!
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dotmoll
Posted 2007-06-26 6:47 AM (#31715 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


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Interesting topic, and thanks to the people who have taken the time to explain their concerns. It makes interesting reading for me, since I married into a family of MEN MEN MEN MEN. And as predicted by all my in-laws I didn't get any daughters out of the deal!

My sons have both sewn themselves more than one pair of pull-on PJ pants, and they can do very, very basic handsewing too - whether they take their skills beyond that is up to them.

I think the skills and styles involved are pretty different - my late mother in law was a tailor and sewed my husband's first suit, but she was not confident in sewing soft, draped blouses at all.

I would teach my sons flat-fell seams, but maybe not rolled hems - because reinforced seams look good on young men, as well as being strong and easy to care for. They may or may not want to make shirts with unusual yokes, but any man who sews would surely welcome more discussion of issues such as pants that look good on deskworkers, and shirts that you can play a fiddle in or swing a bat in. Sewing heavy fabrics, reinforcing pocket corners - these are things that never interested me when I was sewing for myself, so why should guys wade through pages and pages on lingerie fabrics and techniques?

A wider variety of menswear styles is the BIG attraction of patternmaking software for me - I can't understand why so many paper pattern catalogs show only a business shirt and straightleg two-tuck pants - of all things, why would I sew what's already cheap and available? Gimme aprons that are easy to put on and have bellows pockets, gimme shirts guys can move in and vests that don't look twee, gimme stuff that is comfortable and looks good on stooped, arthritic old men, gimme half-pants for summer and heavy, lined pants for winter! Gimme sports bags, cycling backpacks, and gig bags!

Whew!
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MojitoBill
Posted 2008-03-18 1:27 PM (#41092 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Well I guess this is as good a place as any to introduce myself. Hi. My name is Bill and I sew . I mainly sew my Floribbean shirts (like Hawaiian, but since I live in FLA and ma closer to the Caribbean, I call them Floribbean). My avatar pic is of my wife and I last Feb. at our wedding. As you can see, it was a tropical theme. Just don't understand people getting married on a beach in a tux. Weird. Anyway, I made the shirts for all of the guys, the dress for the maid of honor and her brides maid.

I got started because I am big & tall. Not one or the other. I am 6'4" and too big, but I am working on that. Or should I say working out to get rid of that. I customized the pattern I bought so the shirt would fit me a little better and have a slightly more tailored look to it. Mine are all XXL across the shoulders and at the bottom of the sleeve, I use a straight taper from XXL to XL.

Wow. That's an introduction alright. Can you say T.M.I?
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Michellyn
Posted 2008-03-18 1:49 PM (#41094 - in reply to #41092)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Welcome, Bill!  Wow, sewing all those shirts and dresses for your wedding is impressive. 
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Leighanna
Posted 2008-03-18 3:32 PM (#41100 - in reply to #41092)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



Extreme Veteran

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Location: Carrollton, TX.
If you haven't already, please post pics in your album. We would all love to see your work.
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MojitoBill
Posted 2008-03-18 6:24 PM (#41116 - in reply to #41100)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Leighanna - 2008-03-18 4:32 PM

If you haven't already, please post pics in your album. We would all love to see your work.


Hi Leighanna. I just posted two pictures to my album. I'll add more soon.
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MojitoBill
Posted 2008-03-18 7:01 PM (#41119 - in reply to #41116)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Make that three pics in the album.
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Jumala
Posted 2008-03-24 12:32 PM (#41271 - in reply to #41092)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?



Regular

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Hi Bill,

I am 6'1"" tall, have a XL shoulder and a XXXL belly/waist. I may join the Y soon and work out to lose some of the belly!

Dennis
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Lisanne
Posted 2008-03-26 6:24 AM (#41331 - in reply to #639)
Subject: RE: Where are the MEN?


Dotmoll - the Biig 4 are poor on men's patterns, but Kwik Sew have a lot, and there are a few casual ones at Jalie.
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