Wild Ginger Software Forums
Wild Ginger Software Forums
Search Forums | Wiki | WG TV | Newsletter | Blog | Pinterest | Albums | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Designing Darts - Part 5
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Wild Ginger Software - Public -> Design Challenges - PublicMessage format
 
Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2012-01-05 7:45 AM (#79566)
Subject: Designing Darts - Part 5



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

The final dart we will look at is the back shoulder dart.  Unfortunately this is a very unpopular dart.

I think one of the reasons is the styles of the 80's and 90's with an extended drop shoulder.  It does not need a shoulder dart.  But, a more fitted style in the shoulder area, needs the dart.

The program uses the Front Shoulder Width to determine the width of the shoulders.  It then darts the Back Shoulder Width to fit the front width.  (The back has some curve so it takes a bit more width to get to the same shoulder point that measures in the front.)

The difference between the FSW and BSW is usually .5 inches.  Added weight adds padding to the back, but not the front shoulders so the difference can go up to 2 inches.

Look to see what happens when no shoulder dart is selected.  The back needs to shrink to match the front.

For a small dart it's possible to draft with the dart and instead of sewing it, ease the back shoulder to the front shoulder.  This keeps the width added by the dart.

For a large dart it needs to be there.  You might consider manually making it just a bit smaller and easing, but really may not be worth it.

As we looked at dart length in a lesson 4, the wider the shoulder dart, the longer you may want to set the dart so it presses smoothly.





(shoulder darts.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments shoulder darts.jpg (19KB - 7 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
PCMomwad
Posted 2012-01-05 11:26 PM (#79583 - in reply to #79566)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 418
100100100100

You also need more of a shoulder dart if you have a rounded back such as those seen on older people.  Here is a comparison of the same draft for two similarly sized women.  The younger gal tried on my mom's 1947 wedding dress and it fit well except the too-tight waist.  Therefore I consider their sizes to be close enough fot this "academic" comparison.  They are about the same height and have the same hip measurement, but Mom at 88 has the typical "old lady"shape, as she put it.

Ignore that Mom has broader shoulders.  Notice her back shoulder dart is WIDER and the neckline HIGHER to cover her slightly rounded back.  (aka known as a dowager's hump.)  Boutique drafted this perfectly.  You can also see she has lost her waist indentation and and is straighter up and down than the hourglass she used to be. She is also carrying more weight in the front. Her dress fits fabulous except for a little extra room in the upper bust area that I decided to leave alone.



Edited by PCMomwad 2012-01-05 11:36 PM




(Young_vs._older_pattern lo-res.jpg)



(Mom in silk dress 11-11 lo res.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Young_vs._older_pattern lo-res.jpg (85KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments Mom in silk dress 11-11 lo res.jpg (66KB - 7 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cate - Gold Coast
Posted 2012-01-05 11:45 PM (#79585 - in reply to #79566)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5


Elite Veteran

Posts: 680
500100252525

Unpopular?

I find the concept of the back shoulder dart quite easy to follow - the hard part is that it fits badly at the pointy end of the dart because I have no fullness to fill it out at the point. 

An armhole princess dart looks as if it needs boobs on the back just to fill out the released fabric.

What length would you consider to be the maximum for this dart?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2012-01-06 6:42 AM (#79587 - in reply to #79566)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5


Elite Veteran

Posts: 649
50010025
I agree...and pointy back shoulder darts are hard to observe for oneself, let alone fit to perfection. This is one reason why I was saddened to see "real" shoulder princess shaping disallowed or downgraded to style line only on several styles in PMB5. I think that historically, shaping has been in vertical lines wherever possible for excellent reasons.

That said, I saw an interesting "fat guy" jacket on the train today. The shoulders were very broad, and the inevitable sagginess in the back shoulder yoke was taken care of with a HORIZONTAL dart from the outside of the shoulder.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2012-01-06 7:46 AM (#79588 - in reply to #79566)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Upnpopular with sewers - based on the email I get about it.

But as I mentioned, the average difference between the FSW and BSW is .5 which creates a dart that can be eased.

Nice example Phyllis.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2012-01-10 7:34 AM (#79663 - in reply to #79566)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5



Tech Support

500050001000100
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
I getting ready to organize this for the wiki.  Any more questions or things about darts you would like me to cover?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SueC56
Posted 2012-01-10 9:08 AM (#79664 - in reply to #79585)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 549
50025
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
Cate, would making the dart longer and therefore more streamlined make it lie flatter for you?

I'm in the process of making my first princess seam garment, so I'll let you know how it comes out.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
EasilyAmewsed
Posted 2012-01-10 3:44 PM (#79665 - in reply to #79663)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 528
50025
Location: Eugene OR
I really like back shoulder darts, but then I have a rounded back. Haven't tried a back princess yet, but in PMK I used shoulder princess on the front with an empire style with superb results.

A tidbit that might be useful about dart behavior in relation to designing pants & skirts is that if you use the waist drops, the dart does not get shorter, it moves along with the drop and will need to be shortened in settings to retain the correct ending point position. In some cases it can be lead to eliminating the dart altogether if it was small to begin with. This seems to surprise people along with the fact that the waist does not automatically get bigger with waist drops.

Shel
Top of the page Bottom of the page
barbara
Posted 2012-01-10 6:31 PM (#79666 - in reply to #79585)
Subject: RE: Designing Darts - Part 5


100010010025
I find that moving the back dart helps to get rid of the pointy dart problem. I my case I have to move the dart point about.5" to the side and it will fit better on my shoulders. I most do this in pe or pencil. Just moving the dart over doesn't change the angle. I also increase the length slightly. by doing this the dart in placed pointing to the largest part of my shoulder.

with the armhole princess style you will not get the back dart. I am just starting to work on a pattern that I start with the shoulder dart and make an armhole princess seam in PE.

I want to make up a test pattern and see how it will work out.



Edited by barbara 2012-01-10 6:32 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version

(Delete all cookies set by this site)
© 1995-2018 Wild Ginger Software, Inc. All rights reserved.