Mens Shirt Sewalong?
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-02 4:28 AM (#72272)
Subject: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
I decided that I would sacrifice some rare sewing time this month and join the Patternreview men's shirt sewalong. I'm going to use TailorMade, though it's just possible I'll use a PMB5 draft (!!).

No problems making rough n ready stuff for all my men, but I dither over options when it comes to "nicer" menswear - don't have the courage to trust my instincts the way I do with womens' garments.

Anybody want to join me making a man's or menswear-styled shirt, considering things like collar settings, depth of sleeve placket, width of cuffs/button plackets etc?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StMike
Posted 2011-02-02 7:21 AM (#72274 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 545
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
I would like to join in. Where is the "Sewalong?" How do I get signed up? I have made 7 LS mens dress shirts with TM and there are a lot of tricks to get the results you want. That is, I have made a whole lot of mistakes and learned from them. Could still profit from more experience with the program.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rosemary
Posted 2011-02-02 8:57 AM (#72275 - in reply to #72274)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Certified Educator

Posts: 509
500
Location: Houston, TX
StMike - 2011-02-02 6:21 AM

I would like to join in. Where is the "Sewalong?" How do I get signed up? I have made 7 LS mens dress shirts with TM and there are a lot of tricks to get the results you want. That is, I have made a whole lot of mistakes and learned from them. Could still profit from more experience with the program.


What's an LS mens dress shirt?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StMike
Posted 2011-02-02 1:57 PM (#72286 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 545
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
LS = Long Sleeve.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rosemary
Posted 2011-02-02 2:50 PM (#72288 - in reply to #72286)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Certified Educator

Posts: 509
500
Location: Houston, TX
Thanks, StMike.
The pattern review site is here http://sewing.patternreview.com but I could not see the men's shirt sewalong info - maybe you need to be a member which I'm not - although it's a very useful site.

I ought to join you all - would like to make one and haven't used tailor made in a while.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Nancy Arnold
Posted 2011-02-02 4:49 PM (#72290 - in reply to #72286)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Regular

Posts: 69
2525
Location: Missoula, Montana

I think she may be referring to the "Male Pattern Boldness" Shirt Sew Along: http://www.malepatternboldness.blogspot.com/

Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-02 5:16 PM (#72291 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
Yes Nancy, that's the one...though I thought we could have a thread here to consider the TM/PMB issues as we go.

I'm planning on making a long-sleeved shirt to make sure I get sleeve and cuff worries sorted out.

The patternreview thread showed a yoke plus princess seaming/shoulder gores look that I see OFTEN on Japanese menswear.

With this kind of yoke, I really wonder about how deep to make it in the back. Ideally, I want to incorporate the shoulder dart (or some of it) in the lower seamline of the yoke/upper seamline of back body pieces, as that's what I see in a very interesting close-fitting '70s shirt pattern I have.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rosemary
Posted 2011-02-02 5:36 PM (#72292 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Certified Educator

Posts: 509
500
Location: Houston, TX
I'll likely keep mine simple!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-02 8:38 PM (#72293 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525
Hi,
would you like to be more precise in what you need to draw the shirts? For example, give us an approximate sketch, some general measurements, and when you set for a pattern consider me to be the one who makes the grading for your pattern ( I'm using Coordonate Grading Cameo) and it's my pleasure to join such a project.

Cristina

Edited by Cristina 2011-02-02 8:39 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-03 6:21 AM (#72294 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
I wasn't thinking of choosing just one design...shall we say "neat casual/everyday business" long-sleeved shirt with button front and collar, designed as you wish?

How does that suit other people?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
magenta
Posted 2011-02-03 6:25 AM (#72295 - in reply to #72294)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 386
100100100252525
Location: Canberra, Australia
Suits me. If i can find some suitable fabric in the stash, I'm in!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-04 11:47 AM (#72309 - in reply to #72294)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525
To start a pattern we need some measurements, send some main measurements to apply in the style we design.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StMike
Posted 2011-02-04 12:02 PM (#72311 - in reply to #72309)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 545
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Cristina - 2011-02-04 10:47 AM

To start a pattern we need some measurements, send some main measurements to apply in the style we design.


I can send my chart but it will have to wait until this evening as it is on another computer.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-04 4:09 PM (#72313 - in reply to #72311)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525
You can send the text file of the chart
or just the 5 main measurements:
center back
chest
waist
hip
pant overseam (waist-floor)
and with these we'll get a proportional sloper.

Cristina

Edited by Cristina 2011-02-04 4:26 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StMike
Posted 2011-02-04 5:59 PM (#72318 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 545
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Here is my Shirt Chart; it is a separate chart for dress shirts only. My neck actually measures 15.75" but if I leave it that way in the chart, the neck opening is way too big. So, I have to trick the program and use a much smaller neck measurement. Also, to get the front and back neck balanced I had to fool around with the shoulder lengths and back widths until the front and back neck opening was balanced.

I don't know what a pants over seam is and have never used that? My inseam length is 31" or 32" depending on the crotch depth and where I put the waist, which is usually about 2 inches below my belly button whereas my natural waist is about 1" above the belly button. In the chart, I have set the crotch length so as to approximately hit 2" below my belly button.

St Mike Chart:

Chest Circumference: 42

Back Shoulder Width: 17.5

Neck Circumference: 14.5

Natural Waist: 39

Hip Circumference: 41.5

Crotch Length: 28.5

Height: 71.5

Weight: 190

Center Front Length: 15.5

Front Shoulder Width: 17

Front Shoulder Slope: 18.5

Shoulder Length: 6

Center Back Length: 17.75

Back Shoulder Slope: 19

Bicep Circumference: 14.5



Edited by StMike 2011-02-04 6:00 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rowena___.
Posted 2011-02-04 6:13 PM (#72319 - in reply to #72293)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



20001000500100100100
Location: music city, USA
Cristina - 2011-02-02 6:38 PMHi,would you like to be more precise in what you need to draw the shirts? For example, give us an approximate sketch, some general measurements, and when you set for a pattern consider me to be the one who makes the grading for your pattern ( I'm using Coordonate Grading Cameo) and it's my pleasure to join such a project.Cristina

the forum users will all be drafting their own patterns, using whichever WG product they prefer.  these patterns will draft to their custom measurements within the program.  grading is not required.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
rowena___.
Posted 2011-02-04 6:22 PM (#72320 - in reply to #72291)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



20001000500100100100
Location: music city, USA
dotmoll - 2011-02-02 3:16 PMYes Nancy, that's the one...though I thought we could have a thread here to consider the TM/PMB issues as we go.I'm planning on making a long-sleeved shirt to make sure I get sleeve and cuff worries sorted out.The patternreview thread showed a yoke plus princess seaming/shoulder gores look that I see OFTEN on Japanese menswear.With this kind of yoke, I really wonder about how deep to make it in the back. Ideally, I want to incorporate the shoulder dart (or some of it) in the lower seamline of the yoke/upper seamline of back body pieces, as that's what I see in a very interesting close-fitting '70s shirt pattern I have.

start by slashing the pattern from about the middle of the back armscye, perpendicular to the grainline and all the way to the center back, making the yoke seamline.  then extend the center-most dart leg to the yoke line, slash, and close the dart.

this will give a working pattern to use for fitting purposes.  you can adjust from there as needed.

in the first edition of our book, the yoke lesson begins on page 49.  i'm not sure where it is now, i haven't seen the latest printings so it might be on a different page.  if you have that book you can see the steps for the front bodice yoke.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-04 8:05 PM (#72323 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
Thank you for that! I notice that "half way" is about where the body/sleeve alignment box and circle fall...not having any idea, I tended to end the yoke a bit above that, about half-way between that mark and the end of the shoulder dart.

By the way, I assume the yoke should have some relationship to the shoulder-blade, coming at least down to the "outside" (narrower) end of the shoulder blade. It seems that "halfway down" would almost cover the "inside" (wider) end of the shoulder blade. That's very deep for a modern shirt, isn't it?

The TM "square yoke" defaults to roughly the same depth as the default shoulder dart....which is about a quarter of the armhole depth, halfway between the alignment box and the shoulder point.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StMike
Posted 2011-02-04 8:48 PM (#72326 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 545
50025
Location: Evansville, Indiana
The depth of the yoke in the back depends on the shape of the back. I learned that the hard way. The yoke bottom seam should be approximately where the perpendicular curvature of the back is at its greatest. That will allow the shirt to hang down smoothly from the lower yoke seam across the back. If the yoke is too shallow, the shirt back will billow out below the seam forcing open the pleats as it goes over the curve of the back; if the yoke is too deep, then the back of the shirt looks out of balance.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-04 10:40 PM (#72327 - in reply to #72319)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525


Edited by Cristina 2011-02-04 10:55 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-04 10:40 PM (#72328 - in reply to #72319)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525
Each software has its own way to make patterns, its own formulas to calculate the lines and arcs, so I had cases when I modified a body measurement to get a proportional pattern - and I also found on the internet authors who advise how much to adjust one body measurement to get the slopers well done.
And this pant overseam maybe it has its own purpose somewhere deep in software background formulas - that's why I need it.
I'll set your measurements in my charts and I'll let you know about the proportion of the sloper that I get, and then decide about a style
Cristina

Edited by Cristina 2011-02-04 10:54 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-04 11:42 PM (#72333 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
Thanks, Mike, it's really useful to have a shirt-wearing AND sewing POV. It would be worth doing a "yoke muslin" or cut-out to confirm where the yoke seam falls on the wearer's body.

Overseam - is Cristina maybe talking about the outseam (sideseam from waist to floor)? Only problem with this measurement is that it has more variables than with the inseam measurement - waist level, waistband width, ease, and of course hem length.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
rowena___.
Posted 2011-02-05 12:45 PM (#72343 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



20001000500100100100
Location: music city, USA
where to locate the yoke seam depends on what the yoke is for.  if you want to incorporate the fitting darts in the seam you have to create a yoke that will allow for that, located in such a way that the release is where the body needs it most.

if you are just making a yoke for show, you can cut it wherever you want.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Cristina
Posted 2011-02-06 12:59 AM (#72359 - in reply to #72333)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 374
1001001002525
Hi EV,
that distance measured from waist to floor is an important key to body proportion as part of the Height.
It is not influenced by the style chosen.
Almost all length lines of the pattern include in their formulas the "Height"
To get a good proportion I consider "Chart-Height" flexible to change until I get the right proportion for the sloper
but in slightly changing Height I always keep constant that body specific measurement that I called it "overseam"
(as distance waist ot floor) - and of course, I keep two eyes opened on CenterBack measurement

Can't wait for all of us tol get to a common denominator with StMike sloper,

Cristina



Edited by Cristina 2011-02-06 1:02 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LasVegasMike
Posted 2011-02-13 7:22 PM (#72506 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Member

Posts: 7

Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Hello sewing group. I'm participating in Peter's sewalong for the men's shirt. Though I've had Tailor Made for a couple of years, work and life has gotten in the way of me actually using it. But now I thought it would be a good time to start. I'm on my second sloper, as the first one was too tight. I tried taking the measurements myself as I don't have a readily available helper. Once the second sloper is done, hopefully later today I'll see how that one fits. I'm very to see this thread and really want to learn how to properly use the software and make a nice, wearable shirt. I am going for a regular, business type shirt that I would wear to work.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dotmoll
Posted 2011-02-13 10:03 PM (#72510 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 651
5001002525
Great! Have you asked Karen for her input on your sloper? It's especially useful if you don't have anybody else to help with measurements and casting a critical eye over slopers.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LasVegasMike
Posted 2011-02-13 11:57 PM (#72513 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Member

Posts: 7

Location: Las Vegas Nevada
I did get the second sloper done this afternoon. I'm happy that it fits in the body, meaning stomach area and is comfortable. Apparently I also have sort of a "fat back." And I have a good sense of humor too! I gave myself a bit more room in the bicep area, but it is still pulling a lot across my shoulder area and under my arms, as well as the sleeves seem long and tight. I'd like to report it's due to muscles, but it's really just age and gravity. Not to mention an extra cheese burger or two. In the next day or so I am going to try to watch the videos on measuring in the program. I'll also try to get a couple of pictures posted of me in the sloper and the measurements I have so far. This is such a great program to work with. Just wish I knew more about pattern drafting.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Grandma C
Posted 2011-02-14 8:04 AM (#72515 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Elite Veteran

Posts: 970
5001001001001002525
Location: Alabama
Send these pictures to Karen. Front, back, side. Also send the chart. She will help you with, where to make changes. That is the beauty of this program (great tech support).
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2011-02-14 8:34 AM (#72516 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Tech Support

50005000100010025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Mike - please send chart and pictures.

Send chart ASAP - I think I know what measurement may be wrong just based on what you wrote, but need to see numbers.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
LasVegasMike
Posted 2011-02-14 11:02 AM (#72517 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Member

Posts: 7

Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Just a quick note as I'm off to work...I'll sent those measurements tonight when I get in and photos as well. Yes, the tech support is fantastic! Thanks again for the help!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LasVegasMike
Posted 2011-02-14 11:11 PM (#72523 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Member

Posts: 7

Location: Las Vegas Nevada
The measurements and photos are off in the email. I'm looking forward to sloper3. Now I just have to find some more old sheets to cut up for it!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jumala
Posted 2011-03-12 9:27 PM (#73431 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Regular

Posts: 83
252525
Location: Madison, WI
I used to make SS simple shirts a while back using TM. However, I got waylaid into other things. I want to make spring jacket sometime before May, see how that happens. I am a large person with a belly. Plan to go to a sewing/quilting show in Schaumburg, IL, April 1 to take a class in moving the fabric from the front to the back (and figure out how it could be done in TM) among other sewing stuff. My back is tight and the front has too much except for the belly. The belly is fine.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Karen - Tech Support
Posted 2011-03-13 10:16 AM (#73447 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Tech Support

50005000100010025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Hi Dennis

I was hoping you could post some of your settings or connect with las Vegas Mike and send him some settings, for instance ease, that you use.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jumala
Posted 2011-03-13 10:53 PM (#73483 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?



Regular

Posts: 83
252525
Location: Madison, WI
I regained the poundage from 271 lbs to 330 lbs so my measurements may be off, but here goes:

Date Created: 4/29/2009
Chest Circumference: 52
Back Shoulder Width: 19.75
Neck Circumference: 18.75
Natural Waist: 51.5
Hip Circumference: 49.5
Crotch Length: 32
Height: 72
Weight: 271
Center Front Length: 17.5
Front Shoulder Width: 17.75
Front Shoulder Slope: 21.75
Shoulder Length: 6
Center Back Length: 21
Back Shoulder Slope: 21.5
Bicep Circumference: 16
Notes: Lost weight from 330 #s (fall, 08) to 271 (4/26/09). Upper chest is 48", belly is 52".

I plan to start eating vegan style and walk 12 blocks around the capitol building every weekday to help lose some weight. Want to go camping in June south of Rockford, IL for a week.


Style Name: Short_Sleeve_Shirt
Date: 3/13/2011
Last Update: January 1, 2011
Chart: Dennis Mattson

Garment Type: Shirt
Style: Classic Shirt
Closure: Single Breasted
Front Neckline: Jewel
Back Neckline: Jewel
Hemline Sweep: Straight
Hemline Shape: Straight
Styleline: Waist

Button Size: 0.5
Number of Buttons: 8

Front Neckline Depth: 0
Back Neckline Depth: 0
Neckline Width: 0.25
Neckline Point: 0

Armhole Depth: 0

Side/Arm Point: 0
Cf/Extension: 1 (for the belly)
Shoulder Point: 0
Dart Width: 0.25
Finished Cb/Hem Length: 30

Sleeve Style: Set In
Sleeve Underarm Seam: Tapered
Sleeve Hemline Shape: Straight
Sleeve Length: Short
Sleeve Cap Ease: 1.19
Sleeve Underarm Length: 6
Sleeve Overarm Length: 11.746
Sleeve Hem Circumference: 19
Sleeve Elbow Depth: 8
Sleeve Elbow Circum.: 10
Sleeve Cap Height Adj.: 0

Collar Style: Shirt
Collar Styleline: Straight
Collar Point Width: 2
Collar Width: 3

Applied Pocket Style: Patch
Applied Pocket Height: 5.5 (can vary according to one's desire)
Applied Pocket Width: 5

Seam Allowance: 0.25 (using a serger)
Hem Allowance: 1
Facing Width: 2

Chest Ease: 2


One piece collar, no center placket, a Hawaiian type shirt.



Edited by Jumala 2011-03-13 11:05 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LasVegasMike
Posted 2011-03-16 10:57 AM (#73603 - in reply to #72272)
Subject: RE: Mens Shirt Sewalong?


Member

Posts: 7

Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Jumala, thanks for posting and sharing those measurments. I am going out of town for a few days and when I get back I'll take a look at how they compare to my measurements. I'm about 265, gained about 30 lbs after surgery. I'm working on a casual shirt right now and finally just got the pattern put together. I got side tracked on working on some embroidery digitizing for embelishing the shirt.

Also I wanted to thank Karen for her wonderful support with this. Trust me, I tell everybody that sews about Wild Ginger and the awesome support they give their customers.
Top of the page Bottom of the page